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Mundi termini appropinquante ... Find similar branches


Копир ©   (2016-07-14 17:05) [0]

Translated as - In view of the approaching end of the world ...

Thus began the papal bulls, the epistles of Christian kings
in West Europe and Christians on the eve of 1000 AD
each other, believing that the kingdom of God will not last, because,
more than xnumx years?

European philosophers, not ours, no (for us, Russians this is not available)
believed that man = the universe.
That with the birth of man a new world is born.

And with dying - leaves.

I hope that the topic of my post at least once, but somehow
one of the local inhabitants.
Not as a topic of suffering or illness.
No.

Like vulnerabilities.

The fact is that recently I visited a doctor and he (a pest)
sent me straight to "oncology".

Of course, on the one hand, I know the rules of word formation:

Tearing - tearing, weaving - weaver, lying - a doctor.
That is, professional doctors will not say anything good.

And I decided not to go ...

No, this is not an ostrich tactic.
I just do not want to obey the advice of a trio from the 2 honey.

But still?
What if I'm wrong?

And, suddenly, the reality of a recent friend who saw in the hallway
the familiar house is not a friend, but the coffin lid (L.N. Tolstoy, "The Death of Ivan Ilyich")?

I respectfully warn all respondents (and especially the ingenious Innovet) -
this is not a provocation.

What can you do?

I worked for 20 years at the Institute, about which some moderators
"read disgusting" :)

And, if anything, then I have worthy peers.

Listening to the doctors:
George Harrison 58 years, Alexander Abdullov 55 years.

I do not ask for advice. - What would you do?
Decision is made.

I hope to just hear some kind of support?
Or vice versa?

Thank you.

PS: I hope that I will not regret printing this post.
Exhibitionism has never been carried away.
Just, "Rush Hour" Jerzy Stavinsky, remembered.

Here, Igor Shevchenko, knows.
The journal "Foreign Literature" published ...



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-14 17:19) [1]

I would go. Not with the aim of hastily starting to be treated, in order to prolong the existence of an all-encompassing existence, and even some strange chemicals, but for the sake of curiosity. Besides, knowledge is power. And the knowledge that, perhaps, soon kirdyk, can help decide to rob a bank in order to take a walk on these random profits.



Копир ©   (2016-07-14 17:24) [2]

> Kilkennycat © (14.07.16 17: 19) [1]:

Thanks, Konstantin.

Knowledge is power - this is a controversial slogan.
For some time now I prefer
"The less you know, the better you'll sleep."

And thanks for the advice.



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-07-14 17:34) [3]


> Here, Igor Shevchenko, knows.
> The journal "Foreign Literature" published ...


The final there is predictable :)
Good luck, Yuri, whatever it was!



Копир ©   (2016-07-14 19:11) [4]

> Igor Shevchenko © (14.07.16 17: 34) [3]:
> The final there is predictable :)

Wow! Optimistic tragedy on the background
Polish socialism :)

But for the first time in many years, it’s not that ...
Over decades of "social validity" allowed
was to print.

The very essence, the basis of the phenomenon to express to anyone
not that it failed - no one took it.

Classic, like the ancient Hades is not that boring?
Just already so famous!

Socialism, no matter how much I scolded him, gave it to the inhabitants
An important advantage is free and very high-quality education.

And if Roman Pluto calls in a French student
interest, then his Greek brother, Hades has long been familiar to the student
Russian technical school (oh, sorry, the current college :)

I was really amazed when in the 4 volume of the Philosophical Encyclopedia
(USSR, 1970), suddenly deducted that death is not only physiological
a phenomenon, but somewhere "affects the worldview" ...

The USSR easily and willingly trained all kinds of engineers and mine surveyors there.
And reluctantly writers and visionaries.

However, the mine surveyors then "planted" together with the engineers.

The theme of Hades (Thanatos, Pluto, whatever) was banned
in all totalitarian countries.

In the Third Reich, it was inappropriate to discuss the demise, to put it mildly.

I would give two examples of Civilizations in which (this is in addition to antique)
mention of death does not cause rejection, but respect.

If the Egyptians are not considered :) Antique.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-14 19:27) [5]

Perhaps corny, but ..

Try to live every day as the last.
If the diagnosis of triplet is wrong, then there will be many such days, if not, how much God will give.

There is, of course, the “fight” option - to undergo a complete diagnosis, start treating with all kinds of chemicals, get into terrible debts, care for all relatives and friends, start to panic with the slightest pain anywhere and drink pills ..

Threat. That the doctors there will find an oncolony (if they give a hint about the opportunity you turned to them) - there is almost no doubt about it.
After all, a doctor, like a pop with a lawyer, by the way, parasitizes on human pains - this is their bread.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-14 19:30) [6]

The worst thing is when the pain begins.
Here, no advice will help.
As for me, you need to keep an ampoule in a treasured place :)
Although I myself still do not dare :)



Копир ©   (2016-07-14 19:43) [7]

> MsGuns © (14.07.16 19: 27) [5]:
> After all, a doctor, like a pop with a lawyer, by the way, parasitizes
on human pain is their bread.

To the very point.

Well, really, about the “priest” I think differently.
But that later.

> Try to live every day as the last.

But why?

To what?

You know, Sergey, how long I lived, how many, how many,
never thought of something more substantial than children.
And my daughter.

That is, probably, sooner or later I will not be.
And this is normal.

Everything that an ordinary person can do (without my showing off) I managed.
And everyone will be able to.

And the rest is from a big conceit :)



Копир ©   (2016-07-14 19:57) [8]

> MsGuns © (14.07.16 19: 30) [6]:
> The worst thing is when the pain begins.

They say that now (after several desperate suicides of cancer patients)
"people's representatives" finally passed the law and strong painkillers
quite accessible.

I'm not afraid of pain.
She is subject to doctors.
I'm not afraid of death at all.
I am afraid of helplessness.

One friend of mine, the smartest man.
He is already 83 years old.
He can’t chat on the forums like we are here.

Eyes do not see.

A.S. Pushkin wrote, “God forbid, lose my mind!”
No, it’s easier the staff and the bag,
No, labor is easier, but smooth (hunger).

And I will write this, - God forbid me to go blind.
Or go deaf.
Or (well, in short, become disabled).

Although, they live with disabilities.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-14 20:27) [9]

> I'm not afraid of death at all.

This is a drawing. Everyone is afraid of death - this is beyond the power of the mind - this is a powerful instinct. So say those who have never felt her breath.

> I am afraid of helplessness.

Here! My son (and not only) claims that this is from vanity. And vanity comes from pride. Fear of being addicted is inherent in those who are used to feeling strong and that it is not he who depends on anyone, but someone on him. And this is pure pride. Not pride is another thing, namely pride. Which, EMNIP, is the first sin according to Christ's teaching.

Although I am also terribly afraid of her, I see she was overcome by pride :)



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-14 20:35) [10]

I deliberately used the word “pop,” not “priest,” for example, or “minister of worship,” referring to what the vast majority of people (at least in the Socialist Revolutionary Party, well, what can I do - I grew up in it) saw these people only those who, for a decent fee, did dusty work to order: funeral services, christenings, name days, weddings, etc.) "Priests" are those for whom service in the church is only a means of obtaining material wealth and which in everyday life are not much different from "laity". A kind of "work" :)
And such, in my deep conviction, in the Orthodox Church (for the rest I do not know - therefore I do not judge) there will clearly be more than half. Faced many times, alas ..



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-14 20:44) [11]

> Copier © (14.07.16 19: 43) [7]
>> Try to live every day as the last.
> Why?
> So what?

Unlike you, Yuri, I’m quoting all sorts of quotes from Tao Ji, the Koran, all sorts of Testaments, etc., in a word, I’ll be clever, I won’t.
I will say simply: happiness - it is always there, to get it with your hand. If you want to see him, of course. And happiness - this is the meaning of life, is not it?



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-14 20:46) [12]

Hence the conclusion - get Happiness every day and live waiting for the next day and the next Happiness.

Here is the "why" and here is the "so what"



iop ©   (2016-07-14 21:03) [13]

>> Try to live every day as the last.
> Why?

here, between the lines, the subconscious is hidden in plain sight:

so it’s not a shame when you die



iop ©   (2016-07-14 21:15) [14]

Hence the conclusion - get Happiness every day and live waiting for the next day and the next Happiness.


if you imagine that there are still unborn people a couple of weeks before their birth
begin to feel something like that, and begin to suspect that everything will soon change and that there will be no longer any previous life
and begin to make plans to spend the remaining days in my stomach so smarter

and then the hoban ....
they were born and do not remember anything.

and after 50 years, they suddenly think about it and it becomes funny.

what kind of bonuses in the previous life the embryo could inflict, so that in this life he would not feel sorry for aimlessly spent days in the womb.

in a minute they’ll get even funnier and they understand that this is garbage,
but before death, if you think about exactly the same thing,
it’s not bullshit at all (they think).

in general, urgent bonuses must be recruited again.



Копир ©   (2016-07-14 21:21) [15]

> MsGuns © (14.07.16 20: 27) [9]:
>> I'm not afraid of death at all.

> This is drawing. Everyone is afraid of death - this is beyond the power of the mind - this is a powerful instinct.

Hmm.
You are one of the most sophisticated respondents in this forum.
And you forgot about Freud?

Which claimed that the strongest is just
instinct of death, self-destruction and destruction.

What about drawing?
Well, by golly, what should I value, to be honest?

Mr. Gazmanov is a singer of the stormy 90's.
He, whether he wanted it or not, but expressed an almost existential
the motive of all life is "Dance while you are young!"

And it is true.

Of course, you can "dance", gaining both money and some kind of power ...
But how many are there?
Do not listen to Gazmanov?



iop ©   (2016-07-14 21:25) [16]

And happiness - this is the meaning of life, is not it?

about the real meaning of life (if it was once) given no one remembers anything and does not know.

cause:
now live the descendants of those who considered the purpose of life to leave as many healthy offspring as possible.

perhaps more advanced specimens lived earlier, which considered something different, more important and subtle .....

but since their descendants were constantly washed “first” in each next generation, then once ..... none of them remained, but only we remained.
the descendants of those whose purpose in life was to leave offspring.



Копир ©   (2016-07-14 21:37) [17]

> MsGuns © (14.07.16 20: 27) [9]:
> Not pride-this is different, namely pride.

How subtly you felt the difference!

But since you are so abundant enough for this philosophy,
You should not even understand, but simply already know
that without pride there would have been no original sin.

And without sin, Christ would have nothing to do on Earth.

These my considerations, of course, are also a sin.
But allowed by dialectic and rhetoric.
As a reduction of hell absurdity.

Nonsense to make sense :)



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-14 21:40) [18]


> MsGuns © (14.07.16 20: 27) [9]
Quoted1>> I'm not afraid of death at all.
>
> This is drawing. Everyone is afraid of death - it is beyond the power of the mind
> -this is the strongest instinct. So say those who have never
> felt her breath.

Why drawing? I’m not afraid either, although I felt breathing.
There is no point in fearing the inevitable. And the instinct has nothing to do with it, this instinct protects against sudden death (and even then not everyone, they jump from the bungee).
Therefore, there is no fear. Here is the reluctance to die - there is, and a huge one.

One friend of mine, an esoteric lover, said another thing:
if a person is afraid of death, this means that his soul (I don’t remember what exactly, soul, aura, karma, or what else - is not strong in these terms) did not do the proper thing on Earth, and subconsciously, the person feels it.



iop ©   (2016-07-14 21:50) [19]

friend campaign too esoteric.

if people are afraid of death, then of course it is possible that he feels something there,
they say that I haven’t done everything for the planet, I haven’t remade all the things, and how can everything be without me ....

but most likely he just wants to live a trite life again, and things that are not done are out of the question



Копир ©   (2016-07-14 21:54) [20]

> MsGuns © (14.07.16 20: 44) [11]:
> -to be clever, I will not.

Yes, but how long do I have to "clever"?

I, as it turned out, on my proud slope
I continue to think, - And what kind of Exegi monumentum (Miraculous
monument) can a person finally leave behind?

Order?
Like Stalin or Brezhnev?

Books?
Like Stalin or Brezhnev?

Past power?
Like Stalin or Brezhnev?

No.

A simple person besides children (this is very important, of course),
leaves his words.

This is not an idiom, not an allegory.
For those who remember his words.
And some other immortality is needed?



iop ©   (2016-07-14 22:01) [21]

copier, I know what monument you can not leave after yourself.

make an effort of the mind, begin to see the difference between Stalin and Brezhnev.
compare at least the length of the list of Stalin’s personal belongings compiled after his death
with the length of the list of those same Brezhnev orders



Копир ©   (2016-07-14 22:08) [22]

> iop © (14.07.16 22: 01) [21]:

Politics. Finally, empty.
Not even worth a discussion.

I cited Stalin and Brezhnev as an example of greatness and oblivion at the same time.
Let them decide later.
Not to us, not to us momentary.
Solve.

I only guess that we, momentary,
this minute we forget about and, however, outstanding and able
leave, not just.
About Albert Schweizer, who heard?

(In your opinion, Schweitzer, look for it in Google :)



iop ©   (2016-07-14 22:30) [23]

About Albert Schweizer, who heard?

Is it just because it is printed on stamps?
or else for some reason else?

if only because he traveled on a much-worn topic paul vs peter + trinity invented by priests to make Jesus god, so I am against.
thousands of them.
but you don’t know them either and don’t want to know (they weren’t printed on stamps)



iop ©   (2016-07-14 22:33) [24]

but! I got it!

at the doorman you can pronounce the name in your own fashionable way.
through the seam

that's why



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-15 00:16) [25]


> iop © (14.07.16 21: 50) [19]


> most likely he just wants to live corny yet, and not done
> business is not here

I completely agree.
Although the esoteric interpretation is more meaningful to the existence of man. it is not clear what the point is, but all are.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 00:24) [26]

> Kilkennycat © (14.07.16 21: 40) [18]
> Why drawing? I’m not afraid either, although I felt breathing.

Kostya, I don’t know what you mean by “breath of death”, but if a situation like “here the bullet flew and yeah ..”, then this is not what I had in mind.
It often happens that a person has become aware of mortal danger after it has passed - he simply did not have time to realize that he could die.
The same thing when a person sees how a meter from him another person’s head was cut off (and I saw this, though a very long time ago, in childhood) - this is not the same ..
"That" is, for example, when something happens to you, to your body, to which you have no explanation. And this does not continue for a moment, or even for a minute, but for hours. you feel that the body is simply beyond your control. Absolutely. And something strange happens to him, to the body. And scary.
It was with me.
With a heart attack.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 00:30) [27]

“Not afraid of death” is a person who has repeatedly experienced mortal danger, was even seriously injured, and more than once. But he did not die. Those. he was in pain, very painful. Perhaps even scary. But he deep down believed that he would get out and KNEW that he had the resources for that (at least should be). And he had HOPE.

But there are other situations. When a person feels that he is dying, he is even SURE of it. And then fear comes. Inexplicable, sudden, panic. And - undeniable.

In my opinion, such a moment is very well described in London in his almost autobiographical novel, Martin Eden. In the final part of it.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 00:36) [28]

The issue of death is the most important issue of life. I read somewhere that death is the apogee, the quintessence of all human life. He lived honestly and cleanly - you die quietly and painlessly. He offended others, made money, took someone else's - and death will be grave, painful.
Moreover, the only judge of all acts is the man himself, his conscience. It is with her that he will have to "speak" at his death hour.



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-15 00:44) [29]


> MsGuns © (15.07.16 00: 24) [26]

it was just a similar description, only it was not a heart attack. I don’t know what it was - I couldn’t go to the doctors. I remember that there was a feeling that everything had come ... and that nothing could be done. And at that moment there was no fear, but there was a great desire to live, regret and a little relief that finally it was all over.

And I read that death is just a biological reaction to the hostility of the environment. The view in such a way preserves itself. But if the environment ceases to be hostile, the immortality mode will turn on.
Of course, I said very primitively, that article was much smarter and more interesting.



Германн ©   (2016-07-15 00:49) [30]


> Copier © (14.07.16 17: 05)


> And I decided not to go ...
>
> No, this is not an ostrich tactic.
> I just do not want to obey the advice of a trio
> from 2-th Honey.
>
> And yet?
> And, suddenly, I'm wrong?
>

I would go.
And in vain you are talking about the treashers from the 2-th Honey. I have almost 27 years of graduate of this university at my side (sometimes under a barrel). Specialist - God forbid everyone to be like that.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 00:50) [31]

Here is a little more "philosophizing."
At night, when a cool breeze after an unbearably hot day gently hugs a resting body and invites you to a leisurely, calm reflection.
Here, we, the living, it is considered that if a person (animal, fish, plant ..) died quickly, then his death was "easy." But this is not so.

I will try to explain this orthodox at first glance opinion.

Time is our main measure, the most important coordinate of our being. We learned to overcome space, but not time.
And in our right mind all our actions, plans and desires are rigidly riveted to the time line.
However, we can control the time! Anyone! To do this, we have a wonderful "time machine" - our memory! If desired, any of us can survive many moments of our life whenever we want. And even the future can survive - after all, besides memory, we have imagination! And it doesn’t matter whether this future happens or not - we survived it! And from the point of view of our memory, both the imaginable and the really experienced are the same thing!
This is the first postulate. Preceding.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 01:00) [32]

And here is the second postulate - explaining.
There is a theory (psychophysiotherapists say that it is a fact) that the events that occur in the human brain are dreams, for example, absolutely do not “fit” into the time line in time.
What a person sees and TESTS in a dream for, for example, an hour, can really happen in a split second. Or even vice versa - fleeting sleep in real time lasts hours and even days. And it happens - weeks in case of lethargy.
Therefore, WHAT a person is experiencing in an instant (or long hours), from our point of view of parting with life, no one knows, and what is most fatal, he will not even know. For the dead do not know how to talk :(
Perhaps this is the most important thing that God did not give to his creation under the name "Man" - the secret of death. For knowing it, Man will cease to be Man, but will become God himself. And this, obviously, the Creator categorically excluded from his "project" :)



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-15 01:09) [33]

However, the undivine appearance of man is quite permissible, which means that there is no mystery. We just live, chew ... and then everything.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 01:27) [34]

If you think about it, we all live in the moment. Exactly this time is the interval during which our PHYSICAL sense organs send signals to the brain and we experience joy or pain, pleasure or horror, hatred or love. Everything else is beyond the moment: memory is behind and expectation is ahead.

Any event in life is like a throat: first, its expectation: minute, hour, week .., then a sip, very short in time, then the “aftertaste” - memory. Then everything is simple and depends on the "resources" of the person.

He who is young and healthy lives on expectations and has little interest in memory. Firstly, because the latter is very small, and the former are immense as it seems to him. And secondly, it does not seem to him somehow interesting.
Over time, gaining life experience, a person “loses” expectations (becomes a skeptic) and “adds” memory (experience).
When a person becomes an old man, and still lonely (and there are millions of them), his memory is huge, fills almost all his thoughts, and expectations, on the contrary, cower to the point whose name is death.
The old lonely man feels his uselessness to others and this depresses him, makes him almost invoke death. He who believes in God is easier for him because he does not give up this question to his will. But what about those who do not believe? There is no answer to this question.

I want to warn possible critics that this whole “theory” is not, of course, America. All this was read, listened to and looked out for.
In my time. When all this seemed sheer nonsense compared, for example, with the upcoming trip to the sea on vacation.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 01:31) [35]

> Kilkennycat © (15.07.16 01: 09) [33]
> However, the divine appearance of man is perfectly acceptable, which means there is no secret. We just live, chew ... and then everything.

"You have always been a preacher of the theory that by cutting off your head a person’s life ceases, he turns into ashes and goes into non-existence ... Yes it will come true! You go into non-existence, and I will be happy to drink from the cup into which you turn for being "

(c) Master and Margarita



Внук ©   (2016-07-15 09:26) [36]

>> MsGuns © (15.07.16 01: 31) [35]
I was always amused by this logical inversion, as if a person's desire to be or not to be mortal affects the real situation. Straight household magic in the service of mankind.
This is how some people shout - you like to come from a monkey, and that's what happens, and I (I’ll take it) is God's creation. That is, they are not interested in how it really is, they care how they like to think :)
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who replace objective reality with their Wishlist and use this technique everywhere. I used to be indignant at such a rude muhlezh, now I just smile.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 10:10) [37]

> Straight household magic in the service of humanity.

Yeah, right from its very birth :) Thousands of years, billions of people - and the vast majority - idiots.

Well, at least the Enlightened ones ceased to be indignant and confined themselves only to condescending smiles.



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-07-15 10:21) [38]


> Thousands of years, billions of people-and the vast majority
>-idiots.


Sadly, a fact



Внук ©   (2016-07-15 10:43) [39]


> Thousands of years, billions of people

Not an argument. You want to say that billions of people like to think that they are immortal? It is obvious.



virex(home) ©   (2016-07-15 11:40) [40]


> Kostya, I don’t know what you mean by "breath of death"

I clearly remember how it is now: crawled after a rain on a damp log house, slipped - flew up from the height of 1,5-2 meters upside down directly into the soft ground, stuck in, breathing froze, I can’t breathe
it darkened in my eyes, but did not lose consciousness
stunned, slowly overcame himself, sat down
I'm sitting, trying to raise my chest, take a breath
from the tenth attempt ... with terrible snoring, you can feel a little light
"caught my breath" in 10 minutes
only then I realized how my mother would suffer, because I was the only child in the family


> And I decided not to go ...
>
> No, this is not an ostrich tactic.
> I just do not want to obey the advice of a trio
> from 2-th Honey.

for relaxation, you can read Dolores Cannon
not for advertising, but for the TS will be useful
the woman simply introduced her patients into very deep hypnosis, and suggested that the person move into the past before his birth, and she talked about what they talked about in her books
read everything, quite logically and believably

in fact, if you look at these "memoirs", many things can finally find their logical explanation.



Ринсвинд ©   (2016-07-15 13:38) [41]

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iop ©   (2016-07-15 13:50) [42]

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iop ©   (2016-07-15 13:54) [43]

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Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-15 13:57) [44]

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pavel_guzhanov ©   (2016-07-15 14:15) [45]

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iop ©   (2016-07-15 14:16) [46]

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pavel_guzhanov ©   (2016-07-15 14:17) [47]

And about this very branch - Copier, my advice to you, go to the doctor. I have two close people died because of the late diagnosis of the disease.



Ринсвинд ©   (2016-07-15 14:27) [48]

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Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-07-15 14:32) [49]

Let's not clog the branch with politot.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 14:38) [50]

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MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 14:39) [51]

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Ринсвинд ©   (2016-07-15 14:40) [52]

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pavel_guzhanov ©   (2016-07-15 14:42) [53]


> Rincewind © (15.07.16 14: 40) [52]

Get your branch and crap there. This branch is not for



Ринсвинд ©   (2016-07-15 14:45) [54]

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iop ©   (2016-07-15 14:48) [55]

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iop ©   (2016-07-15 14:48) [56]

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Ринсвинд ©   (2016-07-15 14:55) [57]

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MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 14:56) [58]

> Grandson © (15.07.16 10: 43) [39]
> You want to say that billions of people like to think that they are immortal? It is obvious.

So you like to think that, hypothetically, your apartment is not spacious enough, the car brand is also not ice, and you are idiots at work, and your neighbor’s wife will be more beautiful than yours?

I do not like. But you think so! And not only think, but save up a denyuzhku on some Lexus and a wider quartic. And with a neighbor, in principle, not everything is so hopeless :)

It's not about "like - don't like". Absolutely. But the fact is that Faith gives people Hope for the best and this Hope really helps to overcome obstacles that initially seem insurmountable.



iop ©   (2016-07-15 14:57) [59]

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iop ©   (2016-07-15 15:00) [60]

It's not about "like - don't like". Absolutely. But the fact is that Vera gives people

so he says that this in itself is not an argument because people like more pleasant things.

in the sense that billions believe in the best is not an argument, because they believe in the best in a natural and predictable way



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 15:02) [61]

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Ринсвинд ©   (2016-07-15 15:04) [62]

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Ринсвинд ©   (2016-07-15 15:05) [63]

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Ринсвинд ©   (2016-07-15 15:07) [64]

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MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 15:07) [65]

> in the sense that billions believe in the best is not an argument, because they believe in the best in a natural and predictable way

But here comes “he,” a sort of messiah on the contrary, and tells these billions that you are supposedly idiots. That a person, "having given up the ends, dies for good" (almost (s)),
and all your prejudices are from the evil one and from the deep illiteracy.



iop ©   (2016-07-15 15:10) [66]

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MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 15:11) [67]

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iop ©   (2016-07-15 15:12) [68]

But here comes the "he",

again, everything backwards.
you almost explicitly say here that it doesn’t matter what really happens there,
but it’s crucial that the messiah speaks about it.
even if he slightly cheats



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 15:15) [69]

> you almost explicitly say here that it doesn’t matter what really happens there

I did not say this, on the contrary - it is IMPORTANT. For those who believe that “his deeds will be judged”, and such - a vast majority on planet Earth.

Oh yes, I forgot that they are all idiots :)



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 15:18) [70]

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Ринсвинд ©   (2016-07-15 15:20) [71]

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iop ©   (2016-07-15 15:28) [72]

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iop ©   (2016-07-15 15:30) [73]

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Ринсвинд ©   (2016-07-15 15:33) [74]

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Ринсвинд ©   (2016-07-15 15:37) [75]

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iop ©   (2016-07-15 15:40) [76]

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Ринсвинд ©   (2016-07-15 15:51) [77]

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Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-15 15:55) [78]

A bunch of posts back the moderator made a warning. You agreed with the statement. But go on.
It's funny You yourself can’t follow the simplest rules, but discuss it with the utmost confidence, conviction and knowledge of how it is right and not. Yes, even at the state level.



pavel_guzhanov ©   (2016-07-15 15:55) [79]

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pavel_guzhanov ©   (2016-07-15 15:56) [80]

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Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-15 15:57) [81]


> warning. You with approval

from the heat the words get confused ... 35 in the shade, however ...



pavel_guzhanov ©   (2016-07-15 16:02) [82]

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Ринсвинд ©   (2016-07-15 16:02) [83]

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iop ©   (2016-07-15 16:03) [84]

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pavel_guzhanov ©   (2016-07-15 16:05) [85]

Igor, thanks for deleting posts. I say this without sarcasm.



Копир ©   (2016-07-15 17:13) [86]

> Hermann © (15.07.16 00: 49) [30]:
> I have almost 27 years at my side (sometimes under a barrel) a graduate of this university.

How gracefully you hinted at a specialist in the family!



Копир ©   (2016-07-15 17:14) [87]

> MsGuns © (15.07.16 14: 56) [58]:
> But the fact is that Faith gives people hope for the best
and this hope really helps to overcome such
obstacles that initially seem insurmountable.

Not only this.

That friend of mine, who is 83 years old, is an atheist.
Confident and uncompromising.
He especially does not like officials from religion (bishops, Patriarch ...).

Once he told me how his father was dying.
Which was a principled communist.
Stalin's hardening.

- Imagine, ordered to send for the priest!
Apparently, he felt something.

“There you are,” I reply, “you will call.”

- No, Yura, I’d better call you ...

I brought this dialogue to show how a religious feeling
occurs even in the most "unprepared" people.
And completely unexpectedly.

Like an insight.

And, of course, one of the main advantages of believers is
They are not at all afraid of death because they know:
consciousness is not a brain function.



iop ©   (2016-07-15 17:25) [88]

if consciousness is not a function of the brain and is not connected with the body in any way,
then why is the consciousness of a baby different from that of a student and a senior citizen?



iop ©   (2016-07-15 17:27) [89]

or, for example, why were Australopithecines less conscious than Neanderthals, and Neaedrintals less than Cro-Magnons?



iop ©   (2016-07-15 17:28) [90]

and why then evolution did not spare the most gluttonous and greasy human organ of Moscow?
if he is not the source of consciousness?



iop ©   (2016-07-15 17:29) [91]

in the sense of why she did not cut it out of the head of primates



iop ©   (2016-07-15 17:36) [92]

Why am I so annoying?
because I read that believers знают that consciousness is not a brain function.

and meanwhile, for some reason, Murphy’s poppy did a lobotomy for the peace of mindset retched.
in business ..........



Копир ©   (2016-07-15 17:37) [93]

> iop © (15.07.16 17: 25) [88]:
> if consciousness is not a function of the brain, and is not connected with the body,
then why is the consciousness of a baby different from that of a student and a senior citizen?

This is not consciousness different. And its contents.

Like a jar. It is not a function, but by itself. Thing.
And its contents may be different.

You say that the jar can be measured, felt, weighed?
Конечно.
But what does "measure" mean?
Feel? True?

Who dares to assert here that we do not feel consciousness?
Do not hang "on the scales", do not know the mass in kilograms?

Is it necessary?

From the fact that they know that atoms "weigh" femtograms,
the uncertainty principle will never allow anyone to "weigh".



iop ©   (2016-07-15 17:43) [94]

This is not consciousness different. And its contents.

Well, what kind of dependence can there be if
consciousness does not live in the head?

it turns out that consciousness is not a brain function,
but the functioning of consciousness itself is highly dependent on the brain.

Well, do we then fix with the fact that consciousness is not screwed to the brain,
if how it functions one fig josko correlates with physiology?



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 17:45) [95]

> iop © (15.07.16 17: 29) [91]
> in the sense of why she did not cut it out of the head of primates

The answer is in the Bible. In a very accessible way



iop ©   (2016-07-15 17:46) [96]

and to the believers, as it were promised: don’t stop, your consciousness will not go anywhere with death.

they are so delighted, and do not suspect that perhaps it will remain, but without a brain it will function on the level of consciousness of a cucumber

/ * in case the cucumber suddenly also has consciousness * /



iop ©   (2016-07-15 17:47) [97]

The answer is in the Bible. In a very accessible way

Thanks for the info. I know.
Your call is very important to you.



Копир ©   (2016-07-15 17:53) [98]

> iop © (15.07.16 17: 27) [89]:
> or, for example, why Australopithecus was less conscious,
than Neanderthals, and Neanderthals less than Cro-Magnons?

What does "less conscious" mean?
Did not know how to make stone axes?

Forget Marxism-Leninism.
Mastering technology does not guarantee progress.

Agrarian and very backward Marxist Ancient Greece
gave gave the whole world such an incredible surge of science and culture,
that Marx and Engels carefully and timidly circumvent
any mention of antiquity.



iop ©   (2016-07-15 17:56) [99]

What does "less conscious" mean?

that’s what it means.
literally.

or do you say that the consciousness of the former was the same as that of the latter?

and then what about the consciousness of the ancestors of the Australians?
and the ancestors of their ancestors?
and further along the chain to the very first amoebas.



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-07-15 17:57) [100]

MsGuns © (15.07.16 17: 45) [95]


> The answer is in the Bible. In a very accessible way


Is it not in the fifteenth verse of the Book of Ecclesiastes?



Копир ©   (2016-07-15 18:04) [101]

> iop © (15.07.16 17: 27) [89]:

And conversely, modern society is so technological
that Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin would simply be described with joy!

But now, something new no cultures and sciences are not visible.
Even there are no new inventions.

All exploited ideas that arose in the era of steam and electricity.



iop ©   (2016-07-15 18:07) [102]

Even there are no new inventions.

crap crap
and Pokemon Go ?!

not an invention of course but
You try to put yourself in the place of a brow,
who met a time traveler from the 1990 year (you can and another)
and how would you try to tell him what kind of game.



Копир ©   (2016-07-15 18:11) [103]

> iop © (15.07.16 17: 27) [89]:

And finally, to let down a disappointing sentence
Marxism ...

Once technology is boiling, and the classes are there (the exploiters are capitalists,
backward farmers and progressive proletarians (at Microsoft)), -
where is the revolution?

Which, according to the classics, should just be strewed one by one.
All over the world.

And then a couple happened (in Russia and in China).
And stalled something ...



Kerk ©   (2016-07-15 18:13) [104]

You can 2000go :)

We do not consider Pokemon Go an invention, because it is just an implementation of existing technologies. Technology itself is an invention of course.



iop ©   (2016-07-15 18:16) [105]

you are some kind of polar black and white copier.

if a person believes in God, then it must be a boh from the Avramic Lerigias.

and if a person does not believe in that god, then he means an atheist and a Marxist.

but I may not be an atheist, nor a Marxist, although I do not believe in your gods.



iop ©   (2016-07-15 18:18) [106]

We do not consider Pokemon Go an invention

we also do not consider this an invention.

we consider invention not software code or technologies, but how they are applied.

augmented reality is not an invention ?!
why then is radio an invention?
or not too?



Kerk ©   (2016-07-15 18:22) [107]


> iop © (15.07.16 18: 18) [106]
>
> We do not consider Pokemon Go an invention
>
> we also do not consider this an invention.
>
> we consider invention not software code or technology,
> and how they are applied.
>
> augmented reality is not an invention ?!
> why then is radio an invention?
> or not too?

At the end of the day I’m already thinking badly, but I seem to have written the same thing, haven’t I? :)



iop ©   (2016-07-15 18:23) [108]

All exploited ideas that arose in the era of steam and electricity.

well yo-mayo!

you want to say that the steam engine is an idea of ​​the victorian era?

but figurines.
the idea that steam could work was still in antiquity (there was a working prototype of a man’s surname I don’t remember)

so they also communized the idea.

and now what?
can we responsibly declare that man has not progressed for three thousand years now?
so what?



iop ©   (2016-07-15 18:24) [109]

but it’s like I wrote the same thing, no?

well yes. same.
I just clarified exactly where in the PG I see the invention



Внук ©   (2016-07-15 19:10) [110]


> MsGuns © (15.07.16 14: 56) [58]


> Here you like to think

No need to project your dreams onto me. All by :)

> But the fact is that Faith gives people hope for the best and this
> Hope really helps to overcome such obstacles,
> which initially seem insurmountable

Promedol really helps to overcome such obstacles,
which initially seem insurmountable.
And how does this relate to real state of affairs with the immortality of the soul, and not to the Wishlist of a particular individual?



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-15 21:32) [111]


> Grandson © (15.07.16 19: 10) [110]

I would call another remedy, green, but in our country it is prohibited :)



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-15 21:35) [112]

In general, the use of the words "faith", "hope" in such a context is as vile as the symbol of the rainbow, tolerantly used.
Yes, and why faith in God? He is. There must be a knowledge of God.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 23:20) [113]

> Igor Shevchenko © (15.07.16 17: 57) [100]
> Is it not in the fifteenth verse of the Book of Ecclesiastes?

The Bible is not my handbook. I don’t want to spread about the reasons here :)



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-15 23:32) [114]

I never doubted that when God was mentioned, the rosy-cheeked and long-legged "effective managers" would come running and start ... you know what.

But I could not resist, I repent. For it is weak in spirit and subject to temptations :)

The branch rolled down to its usual tip. As always. Then the red one will flow and as a result the moderators will carefully anoint it with incense, wrap it in a shroud, put it in a hole and slam it on top with such a hefty pyramid.

Good luck to all



Kerk ©   (2016-07-16 00:34) [115]


> And how does this relate to the real state of affairs with immortality
> souls, and not to the Wishlist of a particular individual?

As if someone knew the real state of affairs



Германн ©   (2016-07-16 01:21) [116]


> Copier © (15.07.16 17: 13) [86]
>
>> Hermann © (15.07.16 00: 49) [30]:
Quoted1>> I have almost 27 years of graduate (sometimes under a barrel) graduate
> this university.
>
> How elegantly you hinted at a specialist in the family!

Yes. I always try to "gracefully" post on DM. Not always some moderator understands this "elegance". :)

But still. My post did not help you make a different decision? I was hoping that would help.



Внук ©   (2016-07-16 06:30) [117]


> As if someone knew the real state of affairs

Let's say it is unknown. I’m not talking about this, but about the fact that you can’t adjust the task to the answer you like. Well, people like to believe, psychologically it’s understandable, to their health, for you even the president every year in the church stands at Christmas, so that it is more joyful to believe. But one cannot believe for the sake of nishtyaks who are offered within the framework of this faith. After all, the same thing happens: I don’t want to think that they’re “dying for good”, so I will believe. This is not faith at all; petty fraud, in the hope that no one will notice.

Everything, I pass. And no one canceled the article for insulting the feelings of those same philanthropists. What have we come to for some 30 years :(



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-16 08:53) [118]


> Kerk © (16.07.16 00: 34) [115]

> As if someone knew the real state of affairs

but don’t you know? you have a green icon!



Inovet ©   (2016-07-16 10:28) [119]

Oh how much has already been written. It is necessary to overpower.

From the first post
man = European universe?



Inovet ©   (2016-07-16 10:29) [120]

> [0] Copier © (14.07.16 17: 05)
> That with the birth of man, a new world is born.
>
> And with dying-leaves.
>
> I hope that the theme of my post at least once, but, one way or another,
> concerned

Joker You, Jura, however.



Inovet ©   (2016-07-16 10:35) [121]

> [0] Copier © (14.07.16 17: 05)
> (and especially the ingenious Innovet)

Yuri, you flatter me. I sometimes communicate with younger ones, but of a different profile, and I feel dumb. I am ashamed to make grammatical mistakes in those conversations; here I am not very ashamed.



Inovet ©   (2016-07-16 10:56) [122]

> [0] Copier © (14.07.16 17: 05)

I'm still mastering the first post. Yura, I think 3 of the year ago was also sent to an oncologist, well, before that there was a biopsy, they said - there is nothing on our part. But then there was an operation in the Regional Clinical Hospital, so large-scale with cutting the abdominal cavity from and to, i.e. full autopsy, well, there is something else inside that has been redone. Yes, this was the second time, after 21, the field of how the first time with the same autopsy, but with smaller internal alterations, was just done by the very doctors from the 2 medical in the clinic on Vernadsky (well next to it) - excellent doctors, and our Krasnoyarsk excellent. Another thing is that before this we must go through the entire formal system with all the diagnoses and procedures until it reaches the crucial stage. Well, the first time I had an emergency ambulance, the second time six months, then also out of turn, also as if urgently in terms of vital indicators.

So do not ignore specialists, whatever they are - a good doctor is good because if he does not understand, he will do everything to ensure that the patient is sent to a doctor of a different specialty and to a higher level clinic. It was really a good doctor. I was lucky, but I could have stopped communicating several times in my life here and even earlier, when there was no DM or Inta.



Inovet ©   (2016-07-16 11:15) [123]

Yes, in all such life-critical situations, when doctors were dragged to continue beating here, I counted 4 (four!) For my short life, by the standards of human history, I will not compare life with the Universe.



Inovet ©   (2016-07-16 12:00) [124]

Two springs. I recently watched one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jTwH-4xYjs
And once I read it myself, I already forgot the text, but after the video above, I wanted to send it. I even liked it. How can I give a link here. Like I already laid out here. Yeah, that's where the record is, there is the text
https://www.realmusic.ru/songs/806784

Yura, do not be sick, be healed.



Inovet ©   (2016-07-16 12:08) [125]

He listened again. Sorry for the diction, and the microphone was then usual for Skype from a computer store for 100 rubles, but that's not the point.



Kerk ©   (2016-07-16 12:21) [126]


> Grandson © (16.07.16 06: 30) [117]
> Let's say it is unknown. I'm not talking about this, but about the fact that you can’t
> customize the task to the answer that you like.

Why? What is his idea of ​​how to live sucked from a finger is better than your idea of ​​how to live is sucked from a finger? I understand that this is an area where it is very easy to criticize, but it is almost impossible to defend oneself. Very comfortably. Moreover, MsGuns opened up and misses the blows, and you are silent about your mistakes.

And you tell about them. I don’t believe that you don’t have ideals, morals, close people, it makes no sense to wake up tomorrow morning. Tell me. And we are all happy to criticize your stupidity from the rational position of a teenage nihilist.

A man is such a little animal that nothing will remain of it if she abandons everything subjective. Refusing the subjective, refusing the subjectivity. And the fact that someone’s mythology did not coincide with yours does not make your mythology more correct.



Kerk ©   (2016-07-16 12:23) [127]


> Kilkennycat © (16.07.16 08: 53) [118]
>
>> Kerk © (16.07.16 00: 34) [115]
>
Quoted1>> As if someone knows the real state of affairs
>
> but do not you know? you have a green icon!

You revealed me :)



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-16 12:33) [128]


> Kerk © (16.07.16 12: 23) [127]

Well, inside the universe of this forum, only you and Igor have a unique icon color at the moment. Red is obviously the devil :), so you remain ...



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-16 12:35) [129]

light - these are angels, it turns out. Unconscious - fallen souls.
I want a black icon!



Leonid Troyanovsky ©   (2016-07-16 15:25) [130]


> Copier © (14.07.16 19: 11) [4]

>:) But for the first time in many years it’s not that ... For decades
> "social realities" allowed to print.

“In the boat of Charon” Gyul Iyesh was at that time more curious.
And "Rush Hour" then hit the mainstream, apparently due to the Taganka Theater.

--
Regards, LVT.



Внук ©   (2016-07-16 16:30) [131]


> Kerk © (16.07.16 12: 21) [126]

In my opinion, you just answered someone in your head. I haven’t written anywhere that my ideas about life are worse or better than someone else’s (although, of course, I have my own opinion about this). I wrote about the correct and incorrect argumentation.

And, for that matter, then it is required to prove the existence of pink elephants on Mars (soul, god, etc.), and not their absence. But - once again - I do not require me to prove anything here, to anything.

I do not presume to call a top-starter to logic, this is a hopeless case, but with respect to the others the hope has not died yet. And she gives me faith :)



Inovet ©   (2016-07-16 19:40) [132]

There was pain somewhere around there. Il personal experience I will say - the pain can be tolerated, under general narcotic anesthetics and, when the automatic catheter automatically moves the catheter through the catheter, it constantly drives the anesthesia into the brain, the nurses only insert new balloons in the resuscitation unit when the sound signal is generated from previous 100 milliliters. Pieces of 6 tubes from / to different places and a lot of wires for a permanent ECG, a cuff on the arm for measuring pressure are constantly pumping and pumping it out, a pin on the finger for additional control of the pulse. And the next is still quite completely in a coma under artificial ventilation of the lungs and not the first week. In spite of all the pain relief, it’s only for a few days that you live with a thought - I know that in a few days it will be easier, especially not for the first time. But to endure it and know that it will end only with you it is not known when ... It is gloomy, here the backup ampule is better.



Inovet ©   (2016-07-16 19:55) [133]

This I still do not tell all sorts of details.

And yet all this hisses and squeaks constantly. Well, August was - the windows opened. By about the third day, you’re already beginning to come to your senses more or less, it’s time to go to the general ward, although I myself asked the anesthesiologist and resuscitator to hold them in the intensive care unit for 24 hours, remembering the last case in Moscow time when they transferred to the general case a day later. A good guy after the Krasnoyarsk Medical Institute, and also operated on a young from the same university, also a young good surgeon in the third generation - already a dynasty.



Inovet ©   (2016-07-16 21:24) [134]

For the positive, about the humanities and techies
https://pp.vk.me/c631416/v631416488/3e91c/S3444L76IyY.jpg



Копир ©   (2016-07-16 21:35) [135]

> Leonid Troyanovsky © (16.07.16 15: 25) [130]:

Of course, there was still Tolstoy (Death of Ivan Ilyich).
These are, so to speak, pessi-mystical points of view.

Nikolai Ostrovsky tried to express the mystical
(How steel was tempered), but not very convincing.

It is surprising that the theme of suffering, for example, is actively
exploited by writers.
And on the topic of the cessation of this suffering (Death) together
"taboo" is imposed.

Only religion (and everything from Judaism to Hare Krishnas)
willingly talk about death.



Копир ©   (2016-07-16 21:35) [136]

> Inovet © (16.07.16 11: 15) [123]:
> with the universe, I really will not compare life.

Does it seem that Blaise Pascal called the man a “thinking reed”?
But one who realizes on the one hand its "reed", and,
on the other hand, it can easily encompass the whole Universe with the power of thought!

No, Andrey, the Western European "bourgeois" (Pascal, Camus, Schopenhauer),
somewhere right, comparing an insignificant person with an infinite universe
because man is intelligent and knows about God.
And the Universe is like a primitive (but very, very large) organism.
Like amoeba :)
She doesn’t know anything.



Копир ©   (2016-07-16 21:36) [137]

> Hermann © (16.07.16 01: 21) [116]:
> Inovet © (16.07.16 12: 00) [124]:

Thanks friends.
I’ve already gone from categorical to thinking :)



Копир ©   (2016-07-16 22:06) [138]

> iop © (15.07.16 17: 28) [90]:
> and why then evolution did not spare the most gluttonous and greasy
human organ mosk?
if he is not the source of consciousness?

Indeed, if not him?

Physiologists resuscitators, especially after the publication of R. Moody, "Life after life"
they decided to study closely, and in which area of ​​the brain, specifically, "is consciousness"?

They, these physiologists, patiently studied the pathology of consciousness on
to one degree or another, a dying brain.
(They have the opportunity to conduct such a study).

Do you know what conclusion they (have not yet arrived at, but already) come to?

No physiologically substantiated active in the psychotherapeutic
and neurological plan of the area of ​​the human brain, which can
indicate, saying, - Here is the consciousness.

These conclusions are made by the method of "cutting off" areas already dead at that time,
how a person continued to manifest himself as a thinking patient.



Копир ©   (2016-07-16 22:21) [139]

> iop © (15.07.16 17: 28) [90]:

So is the computer.
Who will point out - Here is the computer "intelligence"?
In the processor, in RAM, in the power supply?

What do these or other of the listed computer nodes mean?
without their collaboration?

The thinking reed of Pascal is, of course, the achievement of the Creator.

But this achievement itself approached the role of God and the Creator when
came up with a computer!

And, not surprisingly, because it was not planned :)

Nowhere, in any of the religions, at least that was not predicted
(from the Seven Executions of Egypt and the Flood, to Hell and Paradise) -
Nowhere, in any religion there is not a word about the Computer ...

It’s not that a person has surpassed, but spat on a par with God :)



Копир ©   (2016-07-16 22:39) [140]

> iop © (15.07.16 17: 28) [90]:

And finally, I will not torment you with riddles.
I will answer where the consciousness is.

Both human and computer.
In the spirit of my post No. 93.

In a programme. In the contents of that jar.

This is where the necessary God-programmer comes from.
Because no program will arise on its own.

Need a Creator.



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-07-16 23:09) [141]

Copier © (16.07.16 22: 21) [139]


> nowhere, in any religion there is not a word about the Computer ...


And why are they then? Right, no reason.



Копир ©   (2016-07-16 23:33) [142]

> Igor Shevchenko © (16.07.16 23: 09) [141]:
> And why are they then? Right, no reason.

No, that's not why.
Just be the Lord (not His Son, Christ, but He, the Lord Almighty,
Creator of Heaven and Earth) is really good and a philanthropist - either
otherwise I would mention the possibility of creation besides the fall.

In the sense of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

After all, then, commanding Adam and Eve to eat the fruits of the Tree
The Lord did not forbid eating apples.

He forbade breaking the covenant.
Even the most primitive (like apples).
Just, now, I found a reason, but there is a reason myself.
Shalamov told how overseers in the camp outlined
to prisoners the line "from a shit" - try, just go over.
Get a bullet in the forehead.

Jehovah is a cruel Jewish God.

I am disturbed by the idea of ​​a Christian Trinity proclaiming
the unity of Jehovah, Christ, and the Holy Spirit.

However, a lot of things still bother me :)



El ©   (2016-07-17 00:12) [143]

Yuri, I wish you good health. You need to turn to good doctors, they will suddenly help and heal.
I want you to live long, for yourself, friends, family, work.
Death scares a person. But she is not afraid of Christians. Death is the birth of a new life.
Need to turn to God for help. God help you!



Копир ©   (2016-07-17 00:29) [144]

> El © (17.07.16 00: 12) [143]:
> God help you!

Thank. Because you know the etymology of this word, this gratitude.
In general, I am sincerely moved by the responsiveness of all interlocutors.
Right, I even feel some kind of shyness from
that I do not consider myself worthy of such attention.

However, if someone is in my place, I, of course,
I would also wish every success in the difficult field of struggle
for survival.

Thanks friends.



Германн ©   (2016-07-17 01:45) [145]


> Copier © (16.07.16 21: 36) [137]
>
>> Hermann © (16.07.16 01: 21) [116]:
>> Inovet © (16.07.16 12: 00) [124]:
>
> Thank you, friends.
> I have already moved from categorization to reflection :)

And how does “categorization” interfere with “reflection”?



Копир ©   (2016-07-17 02:13) [146]

& # 954; & # 945; & # 964; & # 951; & # 947; & # 959; & # 961; & # 943; & # 945; - in Greek, - statement and opinion :)
And, opinion necessarily means "doubt."

Question.
Uncertainty.
Well, something like that.

Greek Apollo suspected that Hermes,
still a very young god, just a boy from Olympus,
stole cows from him.

Do not be this suspicion, you know?
There would be no Delphi compiler :)

Because Apollo created his own Oracle to
prove to Zeus that the Hermes boy is a thief and a swindler :)



Копир ©   (2016-07-17 02:36) [147]

Antique Greeks were simple before the paradox.
Ares could have abused Aphrodite.
From this union could be born Eros, the oldest of the gods,
owning every man and every woman today.

Greeks are perfect in legends: from the union of Ares and Aphrodite came
Muse Harmony.
And the god of crafts, Hephaestus.

Greek mythology is completely devoid of Jewish and not quite
understandable meanings like "sin."

What is sin?
Guilt?
The crime?

For what?

Ancient culture, probably because it created so much
productive branches that was free from gloomy
Jewish reminiscences is unknown :)



Копир ©   (2016-07-17 02:51) [148]

Ah, these Greeks.
Eating olives, trusting Zeus and the Centaur!
Living on the fertile plains of Attica.

And these Jews.
Grazing goats.
Not knowing iron.
Not knowing the flotillas.
Not knowing olives and dates.

But instead of Zeus, Apollo and Hermes
monotheism.

Which then captivates the whole world.
The same world is surprisingly.



Inovet ©   (2016-07-17 06:21) [149]

> [148] Copier © (17.07.16 02: 51)

Yura, here I have morning. You need to start the day with positive chords. Well, you probably know my love for some authors - a link to one of their songs. Morning, the glasses are not worn yet, but the joy from that very source does not dry out. All the messages, except those deleted by the moderator and apparently not related to the topic, I read - good messages, I'm glad. Well here is the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44ByJufeZWk
Hello, Jura!



Inovet ©   (2016-07-17 06:26) [150]

> [149] Inovet © (17.07.16 06: 21)

In the morning in the field. Most of the inhabitants here dealt with the natural sciences, so the word field will be understood in a broader sense than in the everyday one, where horses graze or grow our bread today.



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-17 10:00) [151]


> In the morning in the field.

electromagnetic ...



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-07-17 10:30) [152]

Copier © (16.07.16 23: 33) [142]

I would be very grateful if you would get involved with the propaganda of opium. Otherwise - alas.



Kerk ©   (2016-07-17 10:37) [153]


> Grandson © (16.07.16 16: 30) [131]
>
>> Kerk © (16.07.16 12: 21) [126]
>
> In my opinion, you just answered someone in your head. I'm nowhere
> did not write that my ideas about life are worse or better
> someone’s (although, of course, I have an opinion on this).

I answered you. And you either didn’t want to understand, or you tried, but you couldn’t. Although adolescent nihilism should have passed with age.

> And for that matter, proving existence is required
> pink elephants on Mars (soul, god, etc.), and not their absence.
> But - once again - I do not require anything to prove to me here,
> to nothing.

If you think for a moment, you will realize that your pink elephants are no better than his pink elephants. And you are only unhappy that your pink elephants did not match. In [126] I opened this question in detail.



Inovet ©   (2016-07-17 11:55) [154]

As for the propaganda of "opium for the people," I completely agree with IS. Yura, why are you again about such specifics, you know how to think and speak more subtly. Well, right, there’s no reason to start another holivar about the varieties of gods and Marxes with Engels. What for? The topic turned out to be close to many, it’s understandable, and it’s good that they support and participate. It will be a pity if the moderator closes it due to direct violations of the rules.



Inovet ©   (2016-07-17 13:56) [155]

> [151] Kilkennycat © (17.07.16 10: 00)
Quoted1>> in the morning in the field.
>
> electromagnetic ...

"In the fields of endless dew" and electromagnetic fits, as a special case of the well-known. :)



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-17 14:17) [156]

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44ByJufeZWk

The Crest has significantly more than half of the songs - the answer to the question of whether there is a God. If very briefly, here is the gist:

The one who has it has it and the one who doesn't have it :)

And how to live, with or without God - of course, the person decides. Moreover, the degree of his militancy towards his “antipodes” objectively reflects his moral and intellectual qualities.

He didn’t like the comb very much in his youth, it seemed that he was carrying nonsense: some lions, an eagle with "full" eyes, etc. In general, "pink elephants" :)



Inovet ©   (2016-07-17 15:36) [157]

> [156] MsGuns © (17.07.16 14: 17)
> lions, eagle with "full" eyes

Once again the same offtopic. "The blue ox is full of eyes," well, it’s clear where it comes from. And the text is not BG and the music is not his either. The author of the music was generally flaunted by a medieval Italian composer to miss a work at the Melody firm, but he didn’t care about authorship. Here is a decent example of anti-copyright. BG never appropriated authorship, and always on occasion said that the song was not his, the authors did not reliably know, then everything became clear. But this is offtopic.

And the song is very good. But BG itself once said - if I wrote such a song, then there was nothing more to write. And WTO is no longer offtopic.



Внук ©   (2016-07-17 16:06) [158]


> Kerk © (17.07.16 10: 37) [153]


> Although teenage nihilism should have passed with age

Well, your youthful maximalism has not yet passed. Although, of course, it is not yet evening.

> If you think for a moment

I can’t think for so long.

In this vein will we talk?



Копир ©   (2016-07-17 17:29) [159]

I am grateful to Mr. Moderator for pointing out
my mistakes.

I promise it won’t happen again.
In this thread, anyway.

And please forgive me.



Копир ©   (2016-07-17 17:30) [160]

To continue the discussion so that it is not boring,
I propose to engage in a new science, which I will call "morphology",
those. science of dying.

The term was suggested to me by two Latin aphorisms:

"to die without fear of death"
sine metu mortis mori.

"remember <that> is mortal"
memento mori.

This is not thanatology because the latter is a section.
medicine.

But I propose to do, so to speak, the ontology of the phenomenon.

So, for starters, a few facts related to each other
only morphologically:

1. "When will you die?
Then the barman was indignant.

“This is not known to anyone and does not concern anyone,” he answered.

- Well, yes, it is unknown, - the same crappy voice was heard from the office,
think of Newton’s binom!
He will die in nine months, next February, from liver cancer
in the clinic of the First Moscow State University, in the fourth ward. "

(M.A. Bulgakov).

2. Researchers of the North American Indians and Al. Solzhenitsyn (about Yakuts)
mentioned that these peoples practiced abandonment of the elderly, weak
family members die "in nature."

The old man is left with some minimum of food, actually dooming him
to starvation.
But neither the elderly nor the rest of the tribe consider such treatment
cruelty.

On the contrary, a predictable, pre-planned demise within
ancient tradition.
No tantrums.

3. Until the middle of the 70s, Moscow had a tradition
public funeral, always saddening me!

How will the funeral march begin to play, for an hour and a half processions
from the entrance to the bus ...

Chairman of the CPSU MGK Comrade Grishin ended this practice.

Now, if a person doesn’t die in a hospital, he’s carefully “taken”
specialist. orderlies.

And in the cemetery - play Chopin as much as you like.

Why am I telling all this?

On the one hand, dying, as an event, is just as natural,
like birth.

But, for some reason, only death is such a taboo phenomenon.

You can talk about adultery, drunkenness, cruelty
or greed, i.e. about human vices.

But one has only to mention death - tongues fall silent.

Why is this?

PS: If someone knows the correct name for the science of dying,
please mention.
And then I wrote here :)



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-17 17:47) [161]


> 3. Until the middle of the 70s, Moscow had a tradition

Not only in Moscow. In the Murmansk region, too. In childhood, I especially did not want to see and hear it. And the town is small, among the procession a live orchestra, loud. In general, I heard the whole city.



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-17 17:51) [162]


> But, for some reason, only death is so taboo
> phenomenon.

Probably the more civilized the society, the farther it is from nature. And natural events cease to be so. Moreover, the process of birth is more or less clear: we met, drank, turned off the light. The process of death is incomprehensible, in addition, how much has been devoured, is not consumed, and what to do with the accumulated, is not Pharaoh also in Egypt?



Копир ©   (2016-07-17 18:09) [163]

> Kilkennycat © (17.07.16 17: 51) [162]:
> Probably, the more civilized the society, the farther it is from nature.

Well, actually yes.

But here, what is surprising:

Death, as a phenomenon, is so simple in its manifestation.
There was a man, and he was gone.
Simple and clear.

Meanwhile, only such a phenomenon as death "has grown" unimaginable
number of myths and superstitions.
Indeed, the birth of a new person is more worthy of myth-making!
There is a mystery of future fate, and hope, and ...

And death, what?
And it is clear who died, and it is clear that he will not return.
No riddles.



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-17 18:17) [164]


> And it is clear who died, and it is clear that he will not return.
> No riddles.

But then there’s no point. All die.
Perhaps the fear of meaninglessness is to blame for everything?



Копир ©   (2016-07-17 18:19) [165]

> Kilkennycat © (17.07.16 17: 51) [162]:

Moritology and science in order to resolve the contradictions.
One of the contradictions in the sadness of the deceased, on the one hand,
and in the monument (i.e. massive block of stone) or just a hill
on the grave.
Which erect so that the dead man could not "go out." Return.

You, of course, remember the witty story of br. Strugatsky "Picnic on the sidelines"?
What kind of panic did the old man, Stalker's father, returning from the grave.

People grieve over the dead. Cry, kill, etc.
But once they present a real opportunity
"resurrection" - they concreted the grave.
If only for that :)



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-17 18:29) [166]


> "Roadside picnic"


Great example. Recently, the Soviet audition performance listened.

> What kind of panic did the old man there, Stalker's father, returning
> from the grave.

However, his son, a simpler person and a local, calmly accepted the situation.

This is where Dolores Connon was mentioned. Like, under hypnosis, her patients recalled what happened before birth. It seems to me, bullshit. In childhood, he conducted a similar experiment, except that without hypnosis and above himself, he tried to remember what I felt before birth. And nothing. The most powerful failure in memory. Up to some insanity.
Esotericists would call it a bloc, but I believe that there is nothing there. There is simply nothing. As Mark Twain wrote. Sorry, I do not remember the name.
Bad memory :)



Копир ©   (2016-07-17 18:50) [167]

> Kilkennycat © (17.07.16 17: 51) [162]:

The most striking by tradition (attention, Mr. Moderator, - I remember
about your promise, there will be no religious propaganda, just an appeal
to the epos) the resurrection is described in N. Testament, - as the resurrection of Lazarus.

In fact, because Christ could, according to the gospel, resurrect
not just Lazarus, but thousands of relatives of his followers.

Why only one?
And only after the insistent requests of his sisters, Martha and Mary?
And just before His Resurrection?

The answer lies in silence about the future fate of the resurrected.
Not a word.
Neither in subsequent chapters of the Gospel, nor in the Acts of the Apostles ...
As if it weren’t.

And what an apostle the resurrected Lazarus could become!

And why is it mentioned only by John.
Neither Matthew, nor Luke, nor Mark have.

No wonder Porfiry Petrovich meticulously tortured Raskolnikov, -
- Do you believe in the resurrection of Lazarus?
- I believe. Why do you need all this?
- Literally believe?



Копир ©   (2016-07-17 19:26) [168]

Unexpected moritological application I found
on some site (well, look, though interesting).

There they wrote about the origin of the ceremony of mourning the bride
before the wedding.

It turns out that marriage among the ancient Slavs was associated
with the death of a girl.

Not with the sadness of her family, which she leaves, passing to her husband.
Namely about death.

And a white dress (white color ancient black meant mourning)
and the veil, the veil that covers the deceased.

And so-called girlfriend songs, and ransom paid
the bride’s family to make her alive again, not dead.



Копир ©   (2016-07-17 19:46) [169]

Amazing freaks educated moritologist
will find in the manifestations of Western European culture.

Try typing "Victorian style" in Google and, early
or later you will stumble upon completely shocking
photos of families that were made about a fresh dead man.
Those. the family took pictures with the deceased.

For memory.

Horror takes.
Especially with photos of dead children.

Now, of course, such a cultural tradition in Europe is forgotten.
But there was.
And two hundred years have not passed.



Копир ©   (2016-07-17 20:09) [170]

Diseases, sufferings and their apotheosis, Death, that's why
and fetter tongues that do not leave Hope.

Birth with all the risks of the born, sins with all the risks
a sinner - they are still promising.
Because both the newborn and the sinner can change something.

And the immutability of the deceased’s fate inspires horror
in living because "Dum spiro spero" - While I live, I hope.

People are not afraid of death.
And hopelessness.



Inovet ©   (2016-07-17 20:12) [171]

> [169] Copier © (17.07.16 19: 46)

Yura, is not ahead of time? (wording of the question in your calm). And it would be necessary to recall Babu Yaga - it seems that in such huts on chicken legs the old Slavs settled the deceased relatives, equipping them with a symbolic abode. There the bone leg was visible from the hut.

Here is an interesting name for the settlement near me - Yaga, but it is local, of Turkic roots. No one posted a photo of the signpost on the Achinsk-Abakan highway. but there is infa on wiki.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AF%D0%B3%D0%B0_(%D0%9A%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%8F%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B9)

See, Yura, sometimes words do not mean exactly what they usually do.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-17 20:58) [172]

Regarding public demonstrations of mourning ceremonies (funerals).

I don’t see anything bad in it, neither in music, nor in the atmosphere of deep gloom, sorrow. Earlier here in Russia, they also hired mourners.
Why can't I see?
The answer is simple: empathy. Now this is not fashionable, not "in the subject", because it prevents "taking life to the maximum." Superfluous, outdated, “shovels” (after all, the scoop invented the worst, right?)
Indeed, the young man has his girlfriend's birthday today, a party with a possible trawl, he comes to her, leaves the minibus, with flowers, a cake, a bottle of good wine - and then AHA! A crowd of people carry a dead man, people in black, hearse, Chopin and so on - good mood - bang!, And flew off somewhere! Well, nafik him, this young man, all this is necessary - he does not even know who died, why, and who all these people with gloomy faces.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-17 21:02) [173]

And about the tradition of getting rid of the elderly - nothing IMHO is better than the masterpiece "Legend of Naroyama" mankind did not invent on this subject



Копир ©   (2016-07-17 21:48) [174]

> MsGuns © (17.07.16 20: 58) [172]:
> The answer is simple: empathy.
Now this is not fashionable, not "in the subject", because it interferes
"take life to the maximum."
Excess, obsolete, "shovel"

No, Sergey, not so.
Simple, but why stick out your grief?
And mourners.
This, like the Pharaohs, like the Scythian Kings, is the sublimation of wives,
who will follow their husbands.
To the fire.

Grief is personal by definition.
Present, i.e.
And if it sticks out, then this is a performance.



Копир ©   (2016-07-17 22:12) [175]

Two more morphological episodes.
And both from Shukshin "Such a guy lives,"

4. - So, how did the story end?
“Did he bring her matter?”

- I brought it.
And then she says to him, “Why did you drink my money?”

“How did she find out what he drank?”

“So, was that a simple woman?”
This death walked the earth; I searched for a shroud for myself.
So, after that the war began.

She, she, mother, went ...

5.- Guess me a riddle?
I got dressed wrong, washed wrong, went wrong,
drove into a bump and does not come out in any way.
Well, who will be?

- Drunk, or what?

-Palm!



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-07-17 22:30) [176]

Copier © (17.07.16 22: 12) [175]

"" Life is a gimp ...-- I philosophized, flopping through the mud and staggering .-- Empty colorless vegetation ... a mirage ... Days go by days, years after years, and you are still the same cattle as was ... More years will pass, and you will remain the same Ivan Ivanovich, drinking, eating, sleeping ... In the end, they will bury you, a boob, in the grave, eat funeral pancakes on your account and say: he was a good person, but , sorry, scoundrel, left a little money! .. ""

Inspired.



Копир ©   (2016-07-17 22:38) [177]

> Igor Shevchenko © (17.07.16 22: 30) [176]:

Anton Pavlovich. Classic.
By the way, a man, a writer, a clever and a doctor,
who long before any diagnosis knew what awaited him.

And I’ve never been sad.

I don’t know if Chekhov was such a believer,
but the fact that with his optimism he could give odds to other Christians -
that's for sure !



Копир ©   (2016-07-17 23:05) [178]

Deleted by moderator



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-07-17 23:33) [179]

Copier © (17.07.16 23: 05) [178]

You will very much oblige me with the absence of references from now on. As far as I remember, you promised not to mention.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 01:47) [180]

> And if it sticks out, then this is a performance.

What are you saying!

And weddings, holidays, name days - birthdays, etc. ?

Or "stick out" only shame is shameful, and joy is quite? Well then, an example is the other way around. In a family of grief, a close, dear person died, and even (Lord, carry!) A child. And outside the window is a gulba - a wedding. Fireworks, music for the whole region, drunken dances-criminals. It is possible, right?

Some logic in you, Yuri, is illogical. Selective. Or, as it is now fashionable to say "double standards." Here we read, respect, and here - wrap herring. And the newspaper is the same :)



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 01:53) [181]

The most difficult thing in a hostel is to respect the opinions, customs, and mores of others. Even if they are "perpendicular" to yours.
It is incredibly difficult, probably even impossible.
But this must be sought.
Although it turns out badly, it often does not work out at all. I know by myself, my beloved :) But then, after the "fists", nevertheless, there is a "hangover" and regret comes. But usually nothing can be done already - sin hung a heavy weight.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 01:59) [182]

And more about the "protrusion"

Perhaps this idea will be seditious and even the post will fly into the trash, but still I consider it possible to write.

So you yourself, in fact, with this topic do not "stick out" your grief, do not expect sympathy, understanding from people almost unknown to you? Or in social networks everything is permissible, including almost “advertising” about donations, for example, to an operation for a sick child (what’s more so-called social advertising on TV now and not only). Or press reports about the death of ordinary people (in our regional newspaper - in each issue). Why is this?



virex(home) ©   (2016-07-18 06:21) [183]


> why am I so annoying?
> because I read that believers know that consciousness is not a function
> brain.
>
> in the meantime, for some reason, Murphy’s poppy did a lobotomy for peace of mind
> setters retched.
> in business ..........

The French man, living a relatively normal and healthy life, despite the absence of 90% of the brain, forces scientists to reconsider theories about the biological essence of consciousness.
Despite decades of research, experts still cannot explain the phenomenon of consciousness - the fundamental way in which a person relates to the world. We know that this something is formed in the brain, based on neurons. But how is consciousness preserved if the vast majority of neurons are absent?

The clinical case first described in the scientific journal Lancet has been debated in the scientific community for nearly ten years.

At the time of admission to the clinic, the patient was 44 of the year, and until that moment he did not do tomograms and did not know that he had practically no brain. The scientific article does not disclose the patient’s identity to maintain confidentiality, but scientists explain that most of his life he lived quite normally, not even knowing about his features.
(c) kicktime



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-18 09:10) [184]


> lack of 90% of the brain

yes this is an ordinary person!



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-18 09:27) [185]


> MsGuns ©


> In a family of grief, a close, dear person died, and even (Lord,
> carry it!) child.


Why grief? no one knows what's next. maybe it's better there.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 11:37) [186]

> Why grief, then? no one knows what's next. maybe it's better there.

The fact is, Kostya, that all these funeral rituals - they are not for the dead, they are for the living. A close, very dear person is lost. Life for his relatives is impoverished, and this, of course, does not please. Although each of them probably believes that "there" the departed will be fine. But "here" they were left without him, to some extent orphaned - and this is deep grief.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 11:46) [187]

Here is to take such an established ritual as visiting a cemetery, caring for a grave, marking the anniversaries of death .. Is this a demonstration of what we "remember", "honor"? But if the departed is remembered this way every day, why go there, where organic remains lie instead? And if you have forgotten safely, then why is this "bulging"?
Maybe then, so that everyone else would not see that the fence rusted and squinted, the photo faded, the grave was not visible because of the burgeoning burdocks, and they did not think badly about his children, parents ..

Hypocrisy. What I don’t see in people most of all. Nevertheless, every year coming to relatives in Volgograd, I always go with my sister to the graves of my father and grandfather.

Habit?

Not only. It's unexplainable. You just understand that that’s the way it is.



Внук ©   (2016-07-18 13:16) [188]

Moths fly at night into the fire of a bonfire. Is it a habit or a ritual?

Why do you not allow the presence of side effects in such a complex mechanism as the human psyche? They simply can not be there. Most likely, there are many of them. One of the most noticeable is the need for rituals, it is everywhere at the household level. The needs dictated by these side effects are extremely difficult to ignore, and often not necessary if they are harmless.



Копир ©   (2016-07-18 13:50) [189]

> virex (home) © (18.07.16 06: 21) [183]:

> French man living relatively normal and healthy
life, despite the absence of 90% of the brain, forces scientists to reconsider
theories about the biological essence of consciousness.

Ok.
Great illustration!

There is one more circumstance that suggests
that consciousness is not a brain function: speed of decision making.

Not biological (like controlling reflexes from neurons),
but psychological.

If psychological decisions were made biological
"apparatus" (brain), then a person would take a very long time
one or another decision.

The speed of signal exchange between neurons is enough,
only to provide, say, a knee jerk.
Or a reaction to a burn.



iop ©   (2016-07-18 14:12) [190]

nonsense.
the speed of decision-making in stressful situations is a consequence of the fact that consciousness is turned off and the decision is made by the subconscious.
to which it is screwed, both this and that cannot be determined by speed



Копир ©   (2016-07-18 14:15) [191]

> MsGuns © (18.07.16 01: 59) [182]:
> Here you yourself, in fact, do not "stick out" your grief with this topic,
Do not expect sympathy, understanding from people almost unknown to you?

Yes, there is no grief.
Not yet :)

It is time.

Many people on this forum are known to me.
Otherwise, I would not initiate a discussion.
Well, imagine, this is the first time I'm going to a forum,
let's say the masters of the Poser program.
And I start literally what can be read in the post No. 1.
True, funny!

This two.



iop ©   (2016-07-18 14:15) [192]

and rituals are needed alive, as Hans correctly wrote.
look, we buried and look after all decent people



iop ©   (2016-07-18 14:27) [193]

It's unexplainable. You just understand that that’s the way it is.

It’s just explainable what you call “inexplicable”.

Actually, you go there so that others do not see that the fence has rusted.
But since thinking about such a reason is unpleasant, a protective formula appears:
"I just understand that it’s necessary and that's all"



iop ©   (2016-07-18 15:04) [194]

Especially with photos of dead children.

Now, of course, such a cultural tradition in Europe is forgotten.
But there was.
And two hundred years have not passed.



post mortem galleries?
Well, this is not a cultural tradition at all, but economic.
daggerotype was new at the time. expensive pleasure.
they could afford to take pictures “plannedly” two or three times in their life.
children were not photographed at all for no reason at all.

and only with force majeure did they take a picture as a keepsake.



iop ©   (2016-07-18 15:08) [195]

... but it is written as if in the 19 century people loved to take pictures of their living children, seated around their dead brother / sister.

cultural tradition, not otherwise.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 15:18) [196]

> iop © (18.07.16 14: 27) [193]
> This is just explainable what you call "inexplicable."
> In fact, you go there so that others do not see that the fence has rusted.
But since thinking about such a reason is unpleasant, a protective formula appears:
"I just understand that it’s necessary and that's all"

Not at all, I visit Volgograd for two to three weeks and not every year. I don’t remember that when visiting the graves I saw someone nearby, so the “others” do not bother me at all. Moreover, there are a lot of abandoned and even failed graves around - people buried there died more than two decades ago, their children grew old or even died, and grandchildren usually do not need it.

No need to ascribe to me your fantasies, as has already been said.



iop ©   (2016-07-18 15:19) [197]

> French man living relatively normal and healthy
life, despite the absence of 90% of the brain, forces scientists to reconsider
theories about the biological essence of consciousness.

Ok.
Great illustration!


There is an even more excellent illustration.
And not one case per million from the category.

Stroke called.



iop ©   (2016-07-18 15:21) [198]

No need to ascribe to me your fantasies, as has already been said.

I don’t understand where the objections came from.
you yourself wrote that why you go there - "it's unexplainable"
You don’t even know why you go there.
But from somewhere you know that I'm wrong.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 15:23) [199]

> iop © (18.07.16 14: 27)

If a respectful form "You" is used in a written appeal to a single person, then this word is capitalized.
I do not want to emphasize respect - use the appeal to "you", it is small.
I will not be offended at all :)

Threat. Sorry to "teach," but could not help it. Pride, damn it, encourages :)



iop ©   (2016-07-18 15:25) [200]

I don’t remember that when visiting the graves I saw someone nearby, so the “others” do not bother me at all.

oh yo.
during the visit.
and you paint the fence, put in order and clean?
or then others see her?

and to whom do you paint it, if you paint it not dead?
can imagine?
a kind of knot on the memory "I did not forget"?
But how does this differ from the reminder in the phone?
your reminder to "other" is not visible, and the fence is visible.



iop ©   (2016-07-18 15:26) [201]

and where did you get the idea that I’m specifically addressing you using "you"

I can mean all of you, by which "this is inexplicable, just do it all"



Копир ©   (2016-07-18 15:30) [202]

Moritology, like any science, for its development
needs axioms.

Like geometry.
"Through any two points on the plane, you can draw a straight line and, moreover, only one."

It is impossible to prove this at the level of (Euclidean) geometry.
Refute too.
And, most importantly, this axiom is confirmed, as a fact, is realized intuitively and daily.

The first asiom of the copy (nonrelativistic :) morphology
sounds like

"Death is the absence of life."

It seems clear, obvious, but unprovable.
Is a piece of granite dead?
Those. not just subject to destruction, but whether its granite is destroyed
"a life"?
If you recall pantheism.

The second axiom may sound something like this:

"Death is an inevitable event for all living things."

Also, it seems obvious, but unprovable.

Someone will say - here, people and animals die every day around.
What evidence is still needed?

And I will answer, remembering solipsism, they say, all these events
with deaths do not concern me.
All these dead people and animals are just my feelings :)

I would be grateful if someone would confirm or deny something.
And especially grateful if someone adds a new axiom :)



iop ©   (2016-07-18 15:37) [203]

Is a piece of granite dead?

maybe first you need to ask if a piece of granite is alive?

all living things reproduces themselves to one degree or another, passing on gene information to the next generation.
in the process of evolution, the sexual method has come forward, but there is still the simplest division.

a piece of granite does not reproduce itself either sexually or by division.
he is inanimate.



Копир ©   (2016-07-18 15:43) [204]

> iop © (18.07.16 15: 37) [203]:
> a piece of granite does not reproduce itself either sexually or by division.
he is inanimate.

This is a difficult question - What is “living”?

Friedrich Engels defined it this way: Life is a way
the existence of protein bodies.

And Erwin Schrödinger in his famous book "What is life,
from the point of view of physics "believed that organisms consume
organic food not for calories, but for digestion
information.



iop ©   (2016-07-18 15:46) [205]

Friedrich Engels defined it this way: Life is a way
the existence of protein bodies.


what to do with non-protein life?
Is it when free amino acids devoid of protein coat floated in the oceans?

some of them over time learned to generate enzymes that break down other amino acids, and someone acquired a protein coat.



iop ©   (2016-07-18 15:49) [206]

And Erwin Schrödinger in his famous book "What is life,
from the point of view of physics "believed


This refers to the definition of living no more than if Roman Abramovich wrote the no less famous book "What is life from the point of view of the oligarch"



Копир ©   (2016-07-18 15:50) [207]

> iop © (18.07.16 15: 46) [205]:
> what about non-protein life?
Is it when free amino acids devoid of protein coat floated in the oceans?

So I say, it's not so simple.
At the level of experiment, theory and definitions.

But the level of axioms should be simple and clear.

Death is the absence of life.

Where is it easier?
And the thought wakes up!

No?
:)



Ринсвинд ©   (2016-07-18 15:52) [208]


> MsGuns © (18.07.16 15: 23) [199]
>> iop © (18.07.16 14: 27)
>
> If in a written appeal to a single person is used
> respectful form "you", then spell this word with a big
> letters.
> I do not want to emphasize respect - use the appeal
> on "you", it is with a little.
> I will not be offended at all :)

Here is a link for YOU: http://new.gramota.ru/spravka/letters/51-rubric-88
Pay special attention to the "Questions to the Information Desk" section, and specifically to the first question.

To consolidate the material: https://www.artlebedev.ru/kovodstvo/sections/165/



iop ©   (2016-07-18 15:53) [209]

Death is the absence of life.

Where is it easier?


Well, if death is a stupid lack of life, then in the sun it should just stink hellishly as carrion.



Копир ©   (2016-07-18 15:54) [210]

> iop © (18.07.16 15: 49) [206]:
>> And Erwin Schrödinger in his famous book "What is life,
from the point of view of physics "believed

> This refers to the definition of living no more than if Roman Abramovich wrote the no less famous book "what is life from the point of view of the oligarch"

I believe that this book did not come across to you.
Her paper version came out in the USSR at the end of the 80's.
I have :)

Well, and you look in the grid?
There, too.

And try to judge books publicly in the future,
previously, at least by reading them.

Thank you.



iop ©   (2016-07-18 15:57) [211]

And try to judge books publicly in the future,
previously, at least by reading them.


So I did not judge the book.
And about who is studying the question of what is living and what is inanimate according to the book "what is life from the point of view of physics"

Well, this (not the book) the materialist would have written, otherwise the copier had written it.



Копир ©   (2016-07-18 15:59) [212]

> iop © (18.07.16 15: 53) [209]:
> Well, if death is stupidly the lack of life, then the sun should just stink hellishly as carrion.

Why?
Have you read Solaris Lem?
Did you watch Tarkovsky’s film of the same name?

Who knows how much the structure and dynamics of the Sun is simpler / more complicated
the human brain?



iop ©   (2016-07-18 16:02) [213]

why are you clinging to the sun?
What do you need to chew all as a schoolboy?

"sun" is a bunch of places where life has never been.
So what? Does death mean anything?



Копир ©   (2016-07-18 16:06) [214]

> iop © (18.07.16 16: 02) [213]:
> "sun" is a bunch of places where life has never been.
So what? Does death mean anything?

On the contrary! What if life is everywhere?

And death is just like a dialectic negative, its absence :)



iop ©   (2016-07-18 16:10) [215]

okay.
for copier and spell

death is not the absence of life.

this is when it was alive and suddenly it becomes inanimate.

and where there was no stupid life - there is simply lifeless (space)



Копир ©   (2016-07-18 16:14) [216]

> iop © (18.07.16 16: 10) [215]:
> death is not the absence of life.
this is when it was alive and suddenly it becomes inanimate.

No.
Those. For some reason, you mixed the first and second axioms of morphology :)



iop ©   (2016-07-18 16:22) [217]

copier
until your mom and dad conceived you, you seemed to be dead.
but then resurrected.
and I seem to have guessed.
copier is boh.
new science of motrirology.



Копир ©   (2016-07-18 16:22) [218]

> iop © (18.07.16 16: 10) [215]:

I understand what you wanted to say - they say Death is a process,
not a "state."
The process of destroying Life.

But, the fact of the matter is that the absence of Life, as lifelessness,
unlikely because nature is dynamic rather than static.

Therefore, where there is no dynamics of Life, it must be present
the dynamics of its (Life) destruction?

After all, the truth.

Now, in this sense, "Death is the absence of Life."



iop ©   (2016-07-18 16:22) [219]

... mortrology



iop ©   (2016-07-18 16:25) [220]

Nope.
from the point of view of Marxism-Leninism, at first there was dead matter.
then by chance a part of matter became living.
then a living organism from two strategies (immortality and endless reproduction) chose the second.
and so began the process of dying.
which are called death.



iop ©   (2016-07-18 16:28) [221]

Now, in this sense, "Death is the absence of Life."

You have a paper clip on your desk. Iron.
Is there an iron atom in the third left atom in the second row from above?
No?
Maybe then there is death?

maybe it's time to bury a paper clip and start painting her fence?



iop ©   (2016-07-18 16:37) [222]

The third axiom of mortrology from IOP:

if in the Russian language there are three words “life”, “death” and “lifelessness”
that means it’s not just like that.

and in the real world, the absence of life does not necessarily equal death



Копир ©   (2016-07-18 18:17) [223]

Well, regarding the third axiom, I'll try to put forward
such a non-axiom (the exact wording will need to be clarified later):

"Death as destruction means change."

This is, strictly speaking, not an axiom, but a theorem, since
rests on previous axioms. On the example of granite.

Those. it needs to be proved.

Let's try to prove.

Of course, the simplest creatures of the bacteria are alive.
And of course, that they are immortal.
Because they are reproduced by division, i.e. mechanical
repetition of ourselves so that some kind of individuality
of these are simply passed on.

Simpler creatures, viruses,
also reproduce by repetition, i.e. do not have mortality
from lack of personality.

But all of them (both viruses and bacteria) can change over time,
mutate so that the individual repeating itself by division
through 10 thousand generations - another bacterium. Another virus.

Well, the previous bacteria? Dead?
Конечно.
Despite the fact that each of them almost literally repeated
in his separate descendant.

So immortal protozoa, able to repeat almost literally
with their changes testify to their death.

Well, what is not the proof of the theorem?

This, so to speak, theorem is important because it significantly limits
the ontological meaning of sexual selection as a means of developmental progress.
That is, in quantitative (in the sense of speed) sexual selection out of competition,
but in terms of quality - no.

Both division and sexual reproduction lead to changes, which means
and to death.

Therefore witty remarks of religious philosophers, they say, sexually
designated sinful and, therefore, mortal - are wrong.

I am glad that my arguments from abstract axioms allow
to make such an already quite interesting conclusion!



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 18:33) [224]

> iop © (18.07.16 15: 25) [200]
> oh yo.
> during a visit.
> and you paint the fence, put in order and clean?

I do not paint, I do not clean. I don’t even bring flowers.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 18:42) [225]

> Rincewind © (18.07.16 15: 52) [208

The phrase that triggered my reaction about the pronouns:

iop © (18.07.16 14: 27) [193]
Actually, you go there so that others do not see that the fence has rusted.
But since thinking about such a reason is unpleasant, a protective formula appears:
"I just understand that it’s necessary and that's all"


Who was the appeal to? If he wanted to use the bozelny head start of the sentence, he would write ".. they go there .." without any you, you, they .. But he wrote as he wrote. I know Russian language no worse than you.

Then iop © involuntarily recovered, reproaching me for taking this phrase on my account. But how do you please accept this phrase?

So what is my remark about the rules for using a respectful form of appeal to a ONE person contrary to the links you provided?

But, by the way, it’s like a drum. The post will obviously be deleted, and it will be more likely correct than not.



iop ©   (2016-07-18 18:43) [226]

no no no.
an immortal cell has no need to share.
she arose and lives herself endlessly.
why should she share?

I said that of the two strategies, the second was chosen.
reproduction of oneself in posterity.

we don’t have immortal bacteria now.
no. although there are long-lived

from lack of personality.

it is generally unprofitable here.
amino acids simply floated in the primary broth and absorbed the mineral raw materials for their construction. for the time being, they didn’t even have competition and struggle for existence until they selected all available material from the ocean.
it was only later that they realized that it was possible to eat other amino acids, disassembling them into parts.

who at that time could appreciate someone’s individuality and in what words to express it if the words themselves did not exist?



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 18:47) [227]

> iop © (18.07.16 16: 25) [220]
> from the point of view of Marxism-Leninism, at first there was dead matter.
then by chance a part of matter became living.

You, I apologize, have never read Marx and Lenin, of course?

"However, you .. you again excuse me, because, I’m not mistaken, you are an ignorant man?
“Undoubtedly,” the unrecognized Ivan agreed. ”

The Master and Margarita



iop ©   (2016-07-18 18:52) [228]

hospadi ....
and this is written to me by the person who paints the fence "because it is inexplicable"



Копир ©   (2016-07-18 19:18) [229]

> iop © (18.07.16 18: 43) [226]

> no no no.
an immortal cell has no need to share.
she arose and lives herself endlessly.
why should she share?

Well then read here:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BA%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B8



iop ©   (2016-07-18 19:21) [230]

Well read (once again).
and what?



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-18 19:22) [231]


> Copier © (18.07.16 13: 50) [189]

> If psychological decisions were made biological
> "apparatus" (brain), then a person would take a very long time
> one or another decision.
>
> The speed of signal exchange between neurons is enough,
> just to provide, say, a knee-jerk reaction.
> Or a reaction to a burn.


I once read a description (in half sin - English) of foreign medical experiments on restoring a broken spine in rats: it was found that the speed of nerve signal exchange, studied by existing methods, is insufficient. The recorded time, which occurs from the moment of sending the burn signal to the moment the muscle is triggered, to pull the limb away from the flame - it is much longer than the reaction takes place.
In fact, it turns out that at the moment only the duplicating system of the body is registered, slow. But the fast one at that time was unknown (I don’t know now, it took 5 years).

And the observation that a blood clot in the circulatory system begins to form in the heart and is sent exactly where it is needed, completely kills the idea of ​​the circulatory system, like ordinary hydraulics.

So, not everything is so simple, but it also does not prove divinity yet ...



iop ©   (2016-07-18 19:37) [232]

Yes, everything is simple.
near the rat (and especially the rat with a broken spine) a guardian angel flutters.
he then sends near-light signals directly to the rat muscle when he sees that she is threatened with a burn.

and over his shoulder is a bag.
and in that bag lies the rat consciousness, torn from the brain.



Копир ©   (2016-07-18 19:40) [233]

> iop © (18.07.16 18: 43) [226]:
> who at that time could appreciate someone’s personality and in what words to express it if the words themselves did not exist?

And why verbally?
Individuality is even a slight difference.

Here, you were kidding here:

> from the point of view of Marxism-Leninism, at first there was dead matter.
then by chance a part of matter became living.

... although quite witty :)

In fact, of course, Marx never brought his reasoning to the point of extreme paradoxes.

None of the materialists so far (21-1 century, however!)
explain what happened to matter that it found
consciousness?

However, where are they, today's materialists?
This is earlier, open the encyclopedic dictionary with the letter "M" (materialism)
and Publishing House "Thought" willingly lists active workers
materialists.

The reasoning of the idealists (to which you for some reason include me)
also little convincing.

Something happened.
What? Nobody Knows :)

Call it God's Miracle or Miracle of Evolution - not that
neither explain the mechanism of qualitative change
matter towards consciousness.

I know only a few serious studies of the unconditional
materialists (Gray Walter, William Ashby) who are courageously
in the 40's, 50's of the last century, almost at the level of the Skillful Hands circle
tried to honestly simulate the possibility of occurrence
conditioned reflex in a turtle consisting of a relay with an electric motor
and an automaton of four electromagnets.



iop ©   (2016-07-18 19:48) [234]

The mechanism is simple.
variability + heredity + struggle for survival multiplied by millions of iterations of generational change.



iop ©   (2016-07-18 19:55) [235]

copier
But what will you do if the Americans (well, or we) fly to Europe and still find the simplest living bacteria in the shields there?

boh should have made them there too, or what?
why only bacteria? (well, if they find it!)
on earth he had enough weeks for everything about everything.
and bacteria and Adam and Eve .....

let's say they find, but only bacteria.
what then?
if boh, then why and to whom?
and why only bacteria and not horses for example.
or what-no Australopithecus waterfowl.



iop ©   (2016-07-18 20:10) [236]

or for example, here's another thing I’m thinking about .....

but what if the current humanity, the current civilization of the earth is not the first?
and?

well, let's say all this has already happened but for a long time.
didn’t live, and then bam! cataclysm.
such as the Devonian extinction or something like that .....

Well, people were dying immeasurably that day, of course.
But not all. there was a certain number of lucky survivors.

they sat out, caught their breath, began to live on.
but it’s understandable the thing without the benefits of civilization was run wild, everyone forgot and started all over again.

So you say that to these "second" (tobish with us) two thousand years ago, the savior appeared and ruined everything. Let's believe.

And to those, to the "first" he also came, or what?
Or only to us, to the "second"?

And why not?
Because we are "we"? And "if not to us then to whom"?

And if he is admissible and to those to the "first" also came?
Or no? Could not? Or could he?

And then he also told them the same thing as us?
Well, let's imagine what he said. Like you will be saved and all things.
And then, for some reason, he shook everyone. Well, not all of course ....



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-18 20:14) [237]


> iop © (18.07.16 19: 37) [232]

this theory has as many rights to exist as any other. and explains the case of mental inferiority: a bag full of holes.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 20:14) [238]

> iop © (18.07.16 19: 48) [234]
> the mechanism is simple.
variability + heredity + struggle for survival multiplied by millions of iterations of generational change.

Wonderful dogma. Remarkable by the complete absence of any material evidence (this is about "millions of iterations" if cho).

And so everything is white and fluffy.

Here came a hatch to the most juicy leaves on a tree - and the horse became a giraffe. Not immediately, of course, but through "millions of iterations"

Mantis are much more interesting
The males had their heads bit off and bit off at the females after copulation and bit off until the females were almost gone. Then the remaining females realized and began to bite off the male’s head themselves. So they survived :)

It is in the spirit of the "pink elephants" :)



iop ©   (2016-07-18 20:19) [239]

you just don’t think that I idly quiver and clown.

bacteria in space will inevitably find sooner or later.

and the axiom about the fact that Sumer is the oldest civilization of the old world rests from all other forces only on a scientific dogma, which now finally collapses under a shaft of objective facts that cannot be eternally dismissed.

and then what?



iop ©   (2016-07-18 20:22) [240]

Here came a hatch to the most juicy leaves on a tree - and the horse became a giraffe. Not immediately, of course, but through "millions of iterations"

I would even say that it all started not with a horse but with a fish.
And yes, through millions of iterations.

"proof from a giraffe" - a classic of the genre



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 20:22) [241]

And more about the "theory of iterations."

Dinosaurs, as you know, have lived on our ball for tens of millions of years. Just the case of "millions of iterations." So, for all this gigantic probationary period, they did not learn not only how to build skyscrapers or make computers, but even to make fire and build shelters for themselves.
As a result, at the very first cataclysm all at once died "without repentance."

"Error in the program"?

The question begs - WHOSE?

WHO messed up? Nature?

Then again the question is - WHAT IS IT? Mountains - forests - rivers - oceans?

Or a certain "gene pool" that came from nowhere (like from "matter", as our great Marx-Engels-Lenin bequeathed)?



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 20:23) [242]

> I would even say that it all started not with the horse but with the fish.

And why not with the dinosaurs, or even better - with trilobites?



iop ©   (2016-07-18 20:25) [243]

how is it from nowhere?
mammals lived with dinosaurs.

but since there is only one globe and resources are limited, reptiles ruled.
mammals were in the back of life.
after the disaster, the latter were more adapted to the new world and gradually conquered it.



iop ©   (2016-07-18 20:27) [244]

And why not with the dinosaurs, or even better - with trilobites?

you better tell me what was God's plan, the business of laying a guttural guttural nerve exactly according to the fish topology?

Or was Boh a triple, could only copy from the finished fish?



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-18 20:27) [245]


>
> Dinosaurs, as you know, lived on our ball tens of millions
> years. Just the case of "millions of iterations." So for the whole
> this gigantic probationary period never learned
> what to build skyscrapers or make computers, but even breed
> fire and build shelters for yourself.

not a fact. Reptiles, according to Harry Harrison ("Eden") had a slightly different path of development. Sales without fire. But the primitive people with fire gave them greetings.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 20:28) [246]

> iop © (18.07.16 20: 25) [243]

Everything, of course, was "a little" wrong, but oh well :)
I did not hear the answer to the question about the "jamb" in the "program" of nature. This is again about dinosaurs :)



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 20:29) [247]

> But the primitive people with fire gave them greetings.

Who, dinosaurs?
Yes, you, my friend, is Conan Doyle some kind of :)



iop ©   (2016-07-18 20:30) [248]

I did not hear the answer to the question about the "jamb"

[243]



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 20:32) [249]

Damn it, like a giraffe. I did not immediately realize what kind of “Harry” I was talking about. In general, there was a dispute about anything. And they argue those who are not much in the subject. But everything is normal with humor. With sarcasm too :)
A branch about something else actually



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-18 20:34) [250]

Was this the answer to the question of tens of millions of years?
As they say, I have no more questions.



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-18 20:38) [251]


> MsGuns © (18.07.16 20: 32) [249]

So after all to argue to no purpose in this case. Truth is not to be found, at least not yet.



iop ©   (2016-07-18 20:39) [252]

Was this the answer to the question of tens of millions of years?

have Pacific islands and cargo cult heard?

they, too, incidentally did not know either skyscrapers or electricity

Nevertheless, our contemporaries



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-18 20:39) [253]

Answers must be sought in space. We’ll fly to Mars, and immediately everything will become clear.



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-18 20:40) [254]


> iop © (18.07.16 20: 39) [252]

maybe, on the contrary, they knew. were horrified and said: dununafig!



iop ©   (2016-07-18 20:45) [255]

the answer to the question why in a million years dinosaurs have not built a single skyscraper:

the selection mechanism fixes only momentarily useful to the mind.

and those that directly and now do not help to survive / leave more offspring - those signs remain at the level of statistical error.

higher primates can be taught sign language.
and if you destroy all monkeys who cannot learn this, then in three or four generations all monkeys will communicate with the brow.

but them:
1. do not exterminate.
2. without teaching
3. in nature, proficiency in sign language does not give monkeys an advantage over "illiterate" relatives.

therefore:
the ability of monkeys to communicate is not fixed evolutionarily.

therefore and only therefore.



Inovet ©   (2016-07-18 21:24) [256]

In my opinion, the arguments of creative people are now ignored, as are the projects of perpetual motion machines. Only the former persistently creep into their own business with their own errors, and the latter do not bother anyone.



Inovet ©   (2016-07-18 21:29) [257]

I would raise the problem here, closer to the topic of the branch. A believing physician is entitled to be a physician. If, instead of treatment, he will pray for health, and after all such people will be found, it is possible that he comes from three-year-olds. The believer, perhaps even subconsciously, will rely on God, and not on the achievements of medicine and the possession of its methods?



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-18 21:58) [258]


> Inovet © (18.07.16 21: 29) [257]

Well, depending on what faith. After all, there are encouraging, or at least not opposing science.
But I would be scared if the surgeon took a scalpel, and coming up to me would have sighed: "Well ... with God's help ..."



virex(home) ©   (2016-07-19 05:50) [259]


iop
> and rituals are needed alive as correctly written by Hans.
> look, we buried and look after all decent people


iop
> But since thinking about such a reason is unpleasant, it appears
> protective formula:
> "I just understand that it is necessary and all"

you probably didn’t lose the closest person in the world, so you’re talking nonsense
it’s fun to observe the argument of those who have not experienced the subject of the argument
it's like a fry debate about the fishing industry

I'm more interested in the question: why is the population of all living things built on a life-death cycle?
a kind of discrete development model: the more often the generational change frequency, the greater the species diversity, and better environmental adaptability

okay at the cellular level there is nothing to remember, but when organisms with a memory (the most valuable in life, that allows you to survive) die, and pass on to the next generation only the “unpacker” of the species characteristics of the organism, on which the new organism is built, and ... everything, no other information that the ancestral organism has accumulated ... is this stupid?
Of course, the ancestor is trying to convey some information to the new generation while he is alive, but this is negligible, enough only as an aid for survival (movement, hunting, reaction to external stimuli)

maybe the main goal of life on earth is when the earth is a training camp? an army of creatures from the non-material is “born” in the material shell with a completely pure memory in order to get ... experience, then the material shell dies and the next iteration of the embodiment of the intangible “creatures” in the material world takes place

here one more question arises: what experience should an intangible creature get in a mortal shell? what for? for what purpose? what is the meaning of this experience if the material shell dies and the new generation is born with a pure "consciousness", without memory, like an empty CD-RW "blank"?

what is the erasure of memory for newly born people, because their souls may be old? maybe this is the most important good, relieving them of the burden of unresolved problems in "past lives"?



iop ©   (2016-07-19 08:27) [260]

okay at the cellular level there is nothing to remember, but when organisms possessing memory (the most valuable in life, what allows you to survive)

at the cellular level there is nothing to remember ?!
this is serious? kapets dense climbed up.

you probably didn’t lose the closest person in the world, so you’re talking nonsense
You are talking nonsense because you also don’t know why and who needs the rituals.



iop ©   (2016-07-19 08:35) [261]

then the material shell dies and the next iteration of the incarnation of intangible "creatures" in the material world takes place

can I ask?

what experience can be so super-valuable for an intangible entity,
accumulated by essence when it was in a material body?

I’ll even ask easier. about when the essence was and remains material.

Imagine that you are already conscious in the womb.
and you have 9 months to pump and gain experience and skills,
for use after birth.

and I do not mean the formation and growth of the body.
it grows on its own without your efforts and training.

so what kind of experience could be accumulated there to use it here?

can read in advance to study there?
or swing bitsu with dumbbells?



iop ©   (2016-07-19 08:49) [262]

but when organisms possessing memory (the most valuable in life, what allows you to survive)


and it’s said somewhere in a parallel universe or in ours:
- Citizens freshmen, forget everything that you were taught at school!

you finish high school and you again:
- forget everything that you have been taught at the university

and so yeah .....
Earth is certainly a landfill for accumulating useful skills for intangible entities in intangible worlds.



virex(home) ©   (2016-07-19 12:53) [263]


> iop © (19.07.16 08: 27) [260]
>
> at the cellular level there is nothing to remember ?!
> is this serious? kapets dense climbed up.

before commenting, read the entire post from start to finish
Is it a conscious experience, or do you want to say that your liver cells remember the multiplication table?

"The idea that transplanted organs carry codes of life experience is unimaginable. - John Schroeder, Stanford Medical Center."


> You are talking nonsense because you also don’t know why
> and who needs rituals.

my only native person died in the 2013 year, and people came to the funeral to say goodbye to a friend / colleague / neighbor / good acquaintance, and not for the reason "I just understand that it’s necessary and that's all"
think what you say


> can I ask?
>
> than so super-valuable for an intangible entity
> be an experience

when you learn to read, then unnecessary questions will disappear by themselves

> here one more question arises: what experience should get
> intangible creature in mortal shell? what for? with which
> purpose?



iop ©   (2016-07-19 13:10) [264]

to say goodbye to a friend

came and said goodbye friend?

he does not hear and does not see.
according to another interpretation, he sees everything and hears everything, but not through electromagnetic and sound waves, but in a different way.

in the first case, those who arrived clearly say goodbye not to the deceased, but come to testify respect to the relatives of the deceased.
moreover, relatives understand that if you do not come, it is not clear whether you respect the dead person or not. you can respect him without coming.
you also understand that there is a certain ambiguity (between you and relatives).

and to allow it you come.
to resolve this ambiguity.
but it’s between relatives and you, not the dead man and you

but think so and realize that this is so
for many unbearable.
therefore they invent saving snot in the form of
I go because
"so necessary"
"I'm going to say goodbye to dead man"
and so on up to "this is inexplicable"

in the second case, you don’t have to go anywhere at all, since you can say goodbye without leaving your chair at home. the deceased will “hear” you even from Africa.

or do you want to say that your liver cells remember the multiplication table?
before you as an individual get the opportunity to multiply something there,
you need to start (for your survival) to provide a mechanism by which your cells will be built from biological material.

or is their god made up of molecules when you grow?



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-19 13:13) [265]


> people came to the funeral to say goodbye to a friend / colleague / neighbor / good
> friends

for this you have to come to the body that was this person?
If we assume that the body and consciousness are different things, and the liver does not remember the multiplication table, then what is the point of this farewell (I mean ritualism)? You can just sit at home, pour a glass, drink and mentally say "see you".
as I do.



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-19 13:14) [266]


> iop © (19.07.16 13: 10) [264]

I didn’t see the message while I wrote it ... I absolutely agree.



Копир ©   (2016-07-19 13:54) [267]

> virex (home) © (19.07.16 05: 50) [259]:
> why is the population of all living things built on a life-death cycle?

Well, you yourself answer the question well!

> of course the ancestor is trying to convey some information to the new generation,
still alive, but this is negligible, enough only as an aid to
survival (skills of movement, hunting, reaction to external stimuli)

Generally enough.
And if not, the view suffers damage.
And he will try to adapt again, changing the tactics of "teaching children."

In fact, these considerations are valid only for simple
"animals", down to very not stupid birds.

Because human practice is not built on what you have noted
cycle.

People devote so many resources to the education of children!
Even to the detriment of new generations (therefore, fertility
in developed countries so low).
And therefore, technologies are so effective.
So much so that modern man (in developed countries) in general,
Does he remember physical labor?
In the sense of harsh everyday life, say the 19th century?

> what experience should get intangible
creature in mortal shell? what for? for what purpose? what's the point of this experience
if the material shell dies away and a new generation is born with a clean
"consciousness", without memory, like an empty CD-RW "blank"?

Intangible creatures do not exist.
Is that angels?

:)

Of course, you probably wanted to say - a subject with an intangible basis. Consciousness.

I do not think that a new person is born with absolutely pure
from the experience of previous generations, the mind.

Such a Tabula rasa (blank board) is an expression that is used to denote
epistemological thesis that a separate human individual is born
without innate or built-in mental content, that is, pure,
his knowledge resource is completely built from experience and sensory perception of the outside world.
(ripped off by Google :)

Otherwise, to overcome new and new obstacles to development
each generation would need more and more time.

Ancient Greek children before adulthood fully mastered
mythological epic and the beginning of mechanics.

Modern children over the same period begin to understand the wound
computer games and the beginnings of programming as part of the Delphi package :)



iop ©   (2016-07-19 14:00) [268]

I did not quite understand who the question was. let's say that to me.

the source was like this
then the material shell dies and the next iteration of the incarnation of intangible "creatures" in the material world takes place


and the type of earth is a gym for gaining skills for the next world.

after that I asked about the embryo in the womb, which, as it were, was already conscious.
and about what kind of skills (useful in life outside the mother) he can pump there in the placenta.

but people apparently did not understand the whole pulp of the question ....



Копир ©   (2016-07-19 14:29) [269]

> virex (home) © (19.07.16 05: 50) [259]:

You identified the most interesting question at the end of the post:

> that there is an erasure of memory for newly born people, because their souls can
be old? maybe this is the most important good that relieves them of the burden
unresolved issues in past lives?

If the word "erasure" is replaced by the word "inheritance".

Of course, no materialistic science can explain how
the memory and experience of previous generations is passed on to future generations.

You can remember as much as you want about magnetic media, about ether,
about anything...

But no ontology even touches this issue because
that every philosopher will fail immediately (and they are afraid :)

The scientist also will not tackle such a topic.
Scientists are brave, accustomed to failures, but to them to understand the phenomenon
need facts.

There are no facts. There is only phenomenology, i.e. set of related
phenomena ...



iop ©   (2016-07-19 14:46) [270]

Listen, copier, can you deny artificial selection and selection?

and will you say about him that no one still understands how the breed of Russian or English toy or wheat was bred in this way?
they say it is not explainable without divine intervention.

a person simply at his discretion in each next generation deprives some of the chances of leaving offspring, while others gives such chances.

natural selection acts in exactly the same way.
It takes away the chances of transmitting genetic information from those who are less adapted, and thereby gives more chances to those who are more adapted.

machanism is one and the same means.

or did Jehovah Russian toy before adam?



Копир ©   (2016-07-19 14:59) [271]

> iop © (19.07.16 14: 46) [270]:
> you may be artificial selection and selection deny?

Why deny?
Those. the choice by a person of the most economically or decoratively valuable individuals of animals and plants to obtain offspring from them with the desired properties.

But I perfectly remember the classics of this selection, - Trofima D. Lysenko
and Ivan V. Michurin.

Both did not represent any value for selection,
but they caused terrible damage to the development of the science of "genetics" in the USSR.



iop ©   (2016-07-19 15:00) [272]

Of course, no materialistic science can explain how
the memory and experience of previous generations is passed on to future generations.

You can remember as much as you want about magnetic media, about ether,
about anything...


the main thing is not to accidentally remember about dna / rna
and then everything will be tip-top.

it will be possible to continue taldychit about unknown mechanisms endlessly.



iop ©   (2016-07-19 15:02) [273]

copier, copier .....
and look a decent person.

artificial selection admit
but there was Lysenko,
therefore, there is no natural selection!

well what nonsense.



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-07-19 15:19) [274]

Deleted by moderator



Копир ©   (2016-07-19 15:37) [275]

Deleted by moderator



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-19 15:43) [276]

> iop © (19.07.16 13: 10) [264]

I agree. This is exactly what I had in mind when I spoke of hypocrisy.
However, I myself too often (but not always!) Act, in the sense of going to a funeral. It’s inconvenient for relatives, you say, and you will be right.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-19 15:56) [277]

I, as a person not very young already, often had to attend the funeral of relatives, friends, work colleagues ..
And I was always surprised that the deceased person does not look much like himself. And it's not even the color of the skin, not the frozen expression on the face that he had never seen in his life, in another, completely different ..
This can not be explained, but the feeling is that in his face are completely absent those features that were inherent in him during life. Straightforwardness, decisiveness, sincerity or vice versa - cunning, doubtfulness, craftiness. After all, every living person is always a whole world of emotions that are always visible, more or less.
Maybe it’s the matter in the eyes, which are not visible in the coffin? They say that the eyes are the mirror of the soul.

The dead are all the same. Why would this be? Does this not mean that after death from a person, something disappears that does not have a physical explanation, but which nevertheless is visible (more precisely, its absence is visible). Maybe this is the "soul"?



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-19 16:10) [278]

And here is another metamorphosis:
In each of us there is something from father, mother, grandfather, grandmother .. even from uncles with aunts. I’m not talking about biometrics, but about character, abilities, “soul”. My grandfather was a professional artist, my father was an excellent draftsman, I also drew great, in any case, everyone around me spoke at the school, institute, and the factory where I worked ..

Genes? I don’t think so.

Firstly, the ability to draw little helps to “survive”, and secondly, what genes are responsible, for example, for perceiving the world, what does a person who draws just need? What about the character? Grumpiness, temper, pride, or vice versa melancholy, friendliness, resentment - these are also "genes"?

Of course, they will say "materialists." Those who believe that dinosaurs did not need to learn how to build dwellings, so they did not bother to - so, the bedgags died out in the open air, from which all sorts of bad objects fell on them. There is a theory of heredity, “multiplied” by the theory of evolution — it explains everything. How ? But it doesn’t matter - it explains - and that’s all !!! The main thing in it is that it is personally understandable to ME. And the rest is from the evil one.

But all, gentlemen are good, not so simple. Far from it.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-19 16:24) [279]

Okay man, all creatures living, but the Earth itself!
With its water cycle, the change of seasons, the tides associated with the phases of the moon, the moon itself. Yes, the sun in the end, this perpetual motion machine is a tireless provider of energy for photosynthesis - the foundation of Life. How did it happen that animals “feed” oxygen and emit carbon dioxide, and plants - exactly the opposite? A closed, completely harmonious system, quite stable by the way.
Where did all this come from? A "coincidence" that forced Matter to transform itself in this way?

Or maybe all this is the product of someone’s “mind” and “hands”, who once conceived and implemented this “project”. Then the question begs

FOR WHAT PURPOSE ?

And maybe such an incomprehensible word "soul" also serves not, not a key, but at least a distant hint, such an incomprehensible pattern, carved in a Tibetan stone, to unravel. Like, you live there, multiply, but think about who you are and why you are here. Maybe this is one of the goals of the creators?



iop ©   (2016-07-19 16:27) [280]

Firstly, the ability to draw little helps to "survive"

ability to draw:

may appear like any other "mutation".
mutations are random and have nothing to do with survival benefits.

go ahead.
if a new mutation is momentarily useful for procreation, then it will be fixed someday.

what we have in the end.
natural selection factors for modern man almost do not work.
and all these mechanisms for improving biological quality also work poorly.
that is, you can be born down and without legs and you will still (possibly) be messing around.
you grow up and marry the same girlfriend and leave offspring.

Thus begins the biological degeneration of the species.

Genes? I don’t think so.
If these are not genes, then this is a new quality you have acquired.
Well, or you just don’t know your family tree deep enough



virex(home) ©   (2016-07-19 16:37) [281]

Copier
> Modern children for the same period begin to understand
> in wound
> computer games and the beginnings of programming as part of a package
> Delphi :)

it’s not a question to grow Mowgli from the modern sapiens cub

iop
> and come to attest respect to the relatives of the deceased

is it from your personal observations? not an indicator
I didn’t know most of the people and didn’t communicate at the funeral, and after that I didn’t communicate, but they came
and came not to me

iop
> you need to start (for your survival) to provide a mechanism
> by which your cells will be built from biological
> material.

I still recommend that you re-read my post a couple of times, before enlightenment

> and pass on to the next generation only the “unpacker” of species
> characteristics of the organism by which a new organism is built



> about an embryo in the womb that is already conscious, as it were.
> but people apparently did not understand the whole pulp of the issue ....

what experience does he get? most likely basic: the first sensations of sound, light, the first movements, the first reactions to stimuli, there is a split in the identification of oneself and the mother as a whole, and the like
why is this the "old intangible entity" "infused" into the embryo? who knows? maybe there "in heaven" "soul" languished almost forever, you need to update basic skills
after all, before you sit down at the piano after a ten-year break, for a while you will play the bones before you play the masterpiece from memory
but you probably won’t understand the whole pulp of the answer



Ринсвинд ©   (2016-07-19 16:44) [282]


> MsGuns © (19.07.16 16: 10) [278]

Drawing can be a property simply received by the brain as a burden on another, more valuable property. Say, the ability to imagine an object in detail in the mind can be useful after a hunt - when planning a new hunt for the same beast (where it has armor, where are weaknesses, where it is better to plant a spear, etc.). DNA is very sophisticated and, in general, is responsible for the production of proteins, i.e. affects the body in a very roundabout and indirect way. This mechanism is not yet fully understood. You take large and complex systems (such as the origin of the ability to draw, which is encoded by the gene system and, probably, somehow indirectly) and put their unexplored evidence of the presence of some kind of supermind with super goals. But one does not follow from the other, because there is no logic. And even assuming the presence of such a mind, then why does he need these super-goals in relation to us? If you have an aquarium, then why don't you put a primer next to it? What for? But why: the fish will not be able to comprehend the whole essence of the primer, but they will pore over it, trying to understand the owner by indirect evidence. After all, this is exactly what we are trying to present, speaking of a great goal. Isn't that funny?



iop ©   (2016-07-19 16:47) [283]

most likely basic

why the hell to do this in advance in the womb?

my example is fictional.

you there were philosophizing above about the fact that people come to this world to gain skills with which it would supposedly be (easier) in another world.

Tell me, where is it sucked from?
You try to take your grandmother from the village, which has been living there since the eighties. With immense skills of living in his own village.
And teleport her to a regional city. Yes.

But she saw a traffic light with a zebra only in the movies.

so this is again a simple example when
the same person
in one life
losing nothing from the brain when moving
within their area ....

And all the same there with their mega-ideas about the usefulness of the skills of the lower Mindyukin in upper Manhattan.

but they came
and came not to me


naturally. they came to the dead man. say last goodbye.



virex(home) ©   (2016-07-19 16:54) [284]


> you there philosophized above about the fact that in this world
> people come to gain skills with which he supposedly
> () will be easier in another world.

who said that in another world?


> so this is again a simple example when
> the same person
> in one life,
> without losing anything from the brain when moving
> within their area ....

so you take higher
prudence, moderation, faith, hope, love and other virtues
some get stuck on the same level until old age, while others learn life's lessons
plus karma for the done deeds, atonement in several iterations until corrected
it doesn’t matter, a grandmother from the village or a phytonyashka from non-rubber, skills are not pumped by knowledge of the operating mode of the traffic light



iop ©   (2016-07-19 17:08) [285]

prudence, moderation, faith, hope, love and other virtues

These are the values ​​of our specific location.

In another world, where there are resources at all, or where no one uses resources, moderation will be as much appreciated as the ability to compost hay in a metropolis.

The rest of the virtues are the same story.
They seem absolute and eternal only here.

The embryo from the example above may seem like a great and absolute good when a feeding cord is inserted in your stomach.
And he does not know that in that world that is coming to him, they earn first a bribe, then they chew by mouth. And he does not know that no one has tubes outside.

And that even in that outside world, these tubes are forcibly cut off!
And who? !!!!!
Helpless cute little angels.

and you love-carrot-moderation.

We need to think more. Wider!



iop ©   (2016-07-19 17:28) [286]

okay, it still won’t.
explain on the fingers.

You are Vasya and you are in the office.
Inet one at all.
and Vasya listens to music from a flash drive, and not from VKontakte. girls do not look, but only uses mail.
and the neighbors on Vasya are not overjoyed. Vasya is good. Vasya is moderate. Vasya does not spend the general Internet.

farther.
you are still the same Vasya and you are at home.
music from a flash drive, no girls and just mail. all the same.
all but not all.

grateful neighbors who cast a spell on Vasin’s moderation still don’t go to you.
and Vasya is waiting and waiting.
Vasya pumped for a long time spiritually, tried to be moderate on the internet, and those around him didn’t care.

In Vasin’s house (not in Vasin’s apartment) and Vasin’s city
oh woe! no one appreciates Vasina's virtues.

What ungrateful goats they are!



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-07-19 17:41) [287]

virex (home) © (19.07.16 16: 54) [284]


> plus karma for done deeds, redemption in several
> iterations until corrected


I beg you - do not offend my religious feelings.



iop ©   (2016-07-19 23:37) [288]

look at the copier that modern physicists are doing, in which all the latest ideas are communicated by the creators of steam engines and a wireless telegraph

http://youtu.be/eAf77t5HfQE?t=22

very soon the hyperbolic telescope will show us and whether the boch created the earth, whether he gave the tablets of the covenant to Moses, whether the giraffe immediately had a long neck or not
Well and further down the list ....



virex(home) ©   (2016-07-20 05:54) [289]


> In Vasin’s house (not in Vasin’s apartment) and Vasin’s city
> about grief! no one appreciates Vasina's virtues.

they themselves said, “We need to think more”
during the siege of Leningrad, sharing something else would have survived is a virtue, and your example is insignificant in importance, no one has died from the lack of Internet for entertainment
and yes: that’s the point of virtues, you don’t have to wait for gratitude from them, otherwise it’s not virtue, but self-interest (I am for you, then you are for me)


> I beg you-do not insult my religious feelings.

it is not a matter of faith, no one forces you to believe it



iop ©   (2016-07-20 08:33) [290]

no thanks from them

it’s not gratitude for virtue.
but in the fact that in the stairwell everyone doesn’t care about your virtue of moderation of Internet consumption.

By the way, today in the same (even St. Petersburg) entrance you can start walking around the apartments and sharing your bread with everyone.

so that all the above “eternal” and “absolute” virtues are actually relevant and valued locally.



virex(home) ©   (2016-07-20 12:14) [291]


> iop

you probably just can’t keep within your head a simple thought: real virtue does not need gratitude, otherwise it is self-interest
it doesn’t matter if you thanked or didn’t notice at all your “brave feat”, although the “feat” is completely insignificant

> so that all of the above are "eternal" and "absolute" virtues
> actually relevant and valued locally.

again
disinterested real help, without profit, without waiting for an assessment from

real help pumps the skills of the soul, changes it for the better, and at the same time comes back in the form of help from the outside, much like in the movie "always say yes"
Is not this experience haunted by souls in the material world?



virex(home) ©   (2016-07-20 12:24) [292]

another advantage in gaining positive experience can be considered parenthood
before the birth of a child, I was the same cynic as iop, unsociable, quick-tempered, vindictive
but the child allows you to relive his seemingly already forgotten, happy childhood



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-07-20 12:54) [293]


> real help pumps soul skills, changes it for the better
> side, and at the same time comes back in the form of help
> outside


"You, sir, are talking nonsense. And the worst thing is what you say out of place and confidently"



iop ©   (2016-07-20 12:58) [294]

"Hippolyte, how stupid you are!"

tired of me.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-20 13:45) [295]

> virex (home) © (20.07.16 12: 24) [292]
> but the child allows you to relive his seemingly already forgotten, happy childhood

The real joy of communicating with a child from his very infancy is from his grandchildren :)



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-20 13:47) [296]

> Igor Shevchenko © (20.07.16 12: 54) [293]
> "You, sir, are talking nonsense. And the worst thing is that you say categorically and confidently"

If you do not pay attention to the teenage-gaming style of presentation, then he expressed the right idea.



Юрий Зотов ©   (2016-07-20 13:48) [297]

Deleted by moderator



Юрий Зотов ©   (2016-07-20 13:54) [298]

> MsGuns © (20.07.16 13: 47) [296]
> If you do not pay attention to the teenage-gaming style of presentation

As well as the exceptional peremptory judgments and the discussion in the style of "all my opponents are notorious fools, and I am" Artagnan ".



iop ©   (2016-07-20 13:56) [299]

Yuri Zotov every evening after work buys 10 extra loaves of bread and distributes them to ten random apartments in neighboring houses.

Because sharing food with others is always and everywhere a virtue.



Юрий Зотов ©   (2016-07-20 13:59) [300]

Hurrah! He did not leave us!



iop ©   (2016-07-20 14:06) [301]

> real help pumps soul skills, changes it for the better
> side, and at the same time comes back in the form of help
> outside


Here is a good example of the fact that people declare one thing,
writes another
and doesn’t even suspect that it is firing right on the spot.

“how good it is to be disinterested”
Well, really. who will argue?
nobody!

and then read the motivation:
you will help -> pump skills its souls, do it (your personal soul) better.
Yes, and over time you will receive a profit in the form of returning to you of good.

and this person teaches me virtues.
and teaches me not to expect anything in return



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-07-20 14:17) [302]

MsGuns © (20.07.16 13: 47) [296]


> then he expressed the right idea.


Long before him, this idea was expressed by many and alas, also unproven. In your never-read book, it is also there.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-20 16:45) [303]

> Igor Shevchenko © (20.07.16 14: 17) [302]

That is why the book I mentioned is not desktop :)



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-20 16:58) [304]

In fact, it seems to me that everything is quite simple.

If your deeds (words, thoughts) do NOT harm anyone, then - to your health! In the name of God, whether of one’s own “skills”, of something / someone else, it does not matter. The result brings you satisfaction, joy, happiness - but for God's sake!

But if there is harm, even insignificant at first glance, beware! "Rubicon" - he is already nearby.

Here the schoolboy stole in a bakewood, - fed the pigeons. Good boy !

He stole a topic at the institute, he defended his diploma and became, for example, a civil engineer, and now he will build houses for thousands of people. Good girl!

I threw the bank - I bought a factory - to hundreds of people jobs. Virtue!

.

Iskander the Two-horned - after all, he also wished good to his people. Both Genghis Khan and Hitler. And what is interesting - the “priests” (conditionally) all of them solemnly consecrated and blessed.



Kerk ©   (2016-07-20 18:40) [305]

You are all evil to people. Kapets :)



iop ©   (2016-07-20 19:42) [306]

how to become good and do good disinterestedly (really disinterestedly) as bequeathed at Virex et Home:

that is, going home from work today, you are looking for a mother with a child of five in the crowd of passers-by.
come to them.
give the child a click, take the toy, and throw it away.
the mother of the child is a little insulting and her shoulder so ....
but do not overdo it.
not much.

at the same time, the child will be offended by you for a jag and a toy,
but he will suffer even more when they see how they offended the man dearest to him.

from this compassion for the mother, the child’s soul (through suffering) will become a little cleaner and brighter. not your soul is pumped, but his soul.

you will not get any profit from this, and may even burn in hell for your help to the soul of someone else's child.

this will be honest, according to Wirexathhous.

and then in words everything is "I'm selfless, selfless ..."



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-20 20:33) [307]


> iop © (20.07.16 19: 42) [306]

I wrote a similar essay on the exam ... revealed the benefits of homicide among people :)



Kerk ©   (2016-07-20 20:34) [308]


> virex (home) © (20.07.16 12: 24) [292]
>
> another advantage in gaining positive experience is
> consider parenthood
> before the birth of the child, I was the same cynic as iop, unsociable,
> quick-tempered, vindictive
> but the child allows you to relive his seemingly already
> forgotten, happy childhood

Is the wife mainly engaged in the child? :)



virex(home) ©   (2016-07-21 06:27) [309]


> As well as exceptional peremptory judgments and conducting
> discussions in the style of "all my opponents are notorious fools,
> and I-d "Artagnan".

comrades, this is a forum, comment, bring your arguments, who's stopping?

iop
> and teaches me not to expect anything in return

nobody teaches you
these are my assumptions that you are trying to distort and bring to absurdity
nothing new from you except an attempt to troll is not observed

Igor Shevchenko
> Long before him, this idea was expressed by many and alas, also
> unproven

you did not live in the USSR?

Msguns
> I threw a bank-I bought a plant-hundreds of people jobs.
> Virtue!

- I'm Robin Hood! I take from the rich and give to the poor! - said Robin Hood and threw a bag of gold to the poor
- Hurrah! Now i'm rich! the poor man exclaimed
- I'm Robin Hood! I take from the rich and give to the poor! - said Robin Hood, took a bag of gold, and was such

it's as a humor
and so - the complexity of the topic is disclosed in the film "Watch out for the car"



virex(home) ©   (2016-07-21 06:34) [310]

Kerk
> The child is mainly engaged in the wife? :)

yes she is on maternity
the first time after birth was simply architected, you can say breaking the usual way of life, chronic lack of sleep, moral exhaustion, but nothing, they managed, now it’s easier
recently celebrated birthday, first birthday :)



Kerk ©   (2016-07-21 11:24) [311]

That's why I asked. It’s somehow somehow not associated at all: “breaking the usual way of life, chronic lack of sleep, moral exhaustion, but they’ve done nothing, now it’s easier” with this: “the child allows him to relive his seemingly already forgotten, happy childhood.”

My daughter also recently turned one year old. I understand you perfectly :)

PS A year of work at home in such conditions has very boosted my resistance to stress))))



virex(home) ©   (2016-07-21 13:09) [312]

Kerk
> Somehow this is not associated at all:

so time goes
we are already running around, studying everything around
if he expresses dissatisfaction, so because we go out on nature a little (there are a lot of business at home)
about a happy childhood: I remember myself from the moment when I was still swaddled, and how I gradually grew out of my crib, and looking at my son I understand how many emotions he overwhelms from the outside world

Kerk
> My daughter also recently turned one year old.

Congratulations, it turns out also 2015 model year :)



Юрий Зотов ©   (2016-07-21 13:57) [313]

> virex (home) © (21.07.16 06: 27) [309]

This was not said to you.

And who's stopping? I do not know. This is usually associated either with adolescence, or with a very high self-conceit. In this case, apparently, the second.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-21 16:44) [314]

> Kerk
> My daughter also recently turned one year old.

Eh, what you are all small :) I have two girls on the way here.
Only six will be: two Dartanyans and four Constance :)



Юрий Зотов ©   (2016-07-21 17:53) [315]

I want a guy. Two girls are already there.

PS
And also there is a chance in a few years to become a great-grandfather. Ohhh ...



Eraser ©   (2016-07-21 18:32) [316]


> Kerk © (21.07.16 11: 24) [311]


> My daughter also recently turned one year old. I understand you perfectly
> :)
>
> PS The year of work at home in such conditions very pumped mine
> resistance to stress))))

heh heh) yes we are colleagues, only mine so far 8 months only)
about pumping it yes, I think then any conditions will seem paradise.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-21 21:52) [317]

> Yuri Zotov © (21.07.16 17: 53) [315]
> I want a guy. Two girls are already there.

How old is it?



Юрий Зотов ©   (2016-07-22 09:06) [318]

I switched to the third course.



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-22 15:03) [319]

> Yuri Zotov © (22.07.16 09: 06) [318]
> I switched to the third year.

Uncle Yura, well, you are aksakal!
Taking off my hat.

My senior in the 4 class will only go.



Копир ©   (2016-07-22 23:56) [320]

> iop © (18.07.16 19: 55) [235]:
> Copier, and what will you do if the Americans (well, or we)
fly to Europe and still find there in the shields of the simplest living bacteria?

1. I won’t do anything.

2. They will not find.

Because the satellite of Jupiter (Europe) is so far from the Sun that the temperature
on its surface below the limit necessary for atoms to organize
some kind of complex connections.

On the planet Europe (most likely) there are no natural sources of heat,
like volcanoes that provide heat and gas to create
some, even the most exotic atmosphere.

And if there is, then the planet Europe is too small to hold this atmosphere.

3. If you assumed that the Americans would find some
organisms on the supermassive and complex Jupiter with its system
oceans, high pressure and active processes - then I would
did not deny the possibility of life.

From the point of view of natural science.
But I would object from a religious point of view.
But I won’t.

"Zarathustra" does not allow :)

On this occasion, a long time ago I spoke out in connection
trying to find water on Mars.
6 years have passed ...

They didn’t find water on Mars :)
Those. found as a compound, but this mixture of "dry ice" with water ice
completely unsuitable for a warm "broth" in which it can
maintained breathing life.



Копир ©   (2016-07-23 00:19) [321]

> iop © (19.07.16 23: 37) [288]:
> See Copier, what modern physicists do, with all the freshest
ideas were communicated by the creators of steam engines and wireless telegraphs.

http://youtu.be/eAf77t5HfQE?t=22

I looked.

NDA
I nearly vomited ...

It is, of course, powerful, to fantasize about time as about a field!
It is only necessary to insert the surname "Minkowski" and the adjective "hyperbolic" more often.

And then you can add nouns: charge, event, field ...

You invited me to watch a performance by a non-modern physicist,
but a modern quack.

What for?



Германн ©   (2016-07-23 00:38) [322]


> MsGuns © (22.07.16 15: 03) [319]
>
>> Yuri Zotov © (22.07.16 09: 06) [318]
Quoted1>> I switched to the third course.
>
> Uncle Yura, well, you are aksakal!
> Hats off.
>
> I have a senior in the 4-th class will go only.

And I have neither the oldest nor the youngest. I don’t know to be upset or rejoice at me.



Копир ©   (2016-07-23 00:51) [323]

> virex (home) © (20.07.16 12: 24) [292]:
> before the birth of a child, I was the same cynic as iop, unsociable, quick-tempered, vindictive

Mr. iop is not a cynic, not quick-tempered, not vindictive.

He is bewildered, full of ideas, but not enough knowledge is not enough,
and confidence about knowledge already acquired.

Hence his scumbag.

I don’t get personal, I just remember saying
Alexander Vertinsky in 1916: Humor is my first trench.
(Decadent who never snuffed gunpowder :)



Копир ©   (2016-07-23 01:10) [324]

> virex (home) © (20.07.16 12: 24) [292]:
but the child allows you to relive his seemingly
already forgotten, happy childhood

And even more.

Nothing in this mortal world of illusory success,
topics for pride, topics for sadness, topics for publications
It will not replace the simple fact of having a child in the family (or in addition to the family).

Neither a diploma, nor a dissertation, no "creative" success.
Because no one your dissertation years through 20 after your
will not read death.

And dozens of men will watch your granddaughter with admiration!



MsGuns ©   (2016-07-23 01:34) [325]

> Р “ермР° РЅРЅ В © (23.07.16 00: 38) [322]
> And I have neither the eldest nor the youngest. I do not know to be upset or rejoice at me.

If you don’t have aunts ..
(C)



iop ©   (2016-07-23 09:26) [326]

It is, of course, powerful, to fantasize about time as about a field!

One hundred years ago it was all about the same.
When it suddenly turned out that the addition of velocities according to Newton is consistent with the observed experiment very accurately, but only for prerelativistic velocities.
And Einstein (as you like) in a hundred only specified Newton, but did not cancel.

And in the video watched, it is mainly not about fantasies about the nature of time, but about additional factors that become noticeable and which must be taken into account starting from certain distances.

Newtonian potential itself remains the same as it has been all this time, but it still has a logarithmic coefficient, which was neglected before.

and now you don’t need a crutch of dark matter in order for the galactics to spin as they spin now.



Inovet ©   (2016-07-23 09:48) [327]

> [326] iop © (23.07.16 09: 26)

What of this crutch is too early to say. Physics is experimental science - everything must be checked.



iop ©   (2016-07-23 09:59) [328]

Well, check if you can.
although we have a priori already cut off the possibility of such a check.

schematically, it looks like this:

we don’t know why the orbital speeds of stars in a galaxy decrease much more slowly than Newton and Einstein predict.
that means there are a lot of dark masses in the galaxy.
and this mass is very magical.
but in one of the types of interactions it does not participate except gravitational.
in none. and it should be over to the waist. many times more than ordinary matter.

as for the uncertainty in the knowledge about which the copier wrote here, then there is confidence.

no, I certainly don’t know if Pavlov and Penrose are mistaken, but damn it, it’s beautiful and elegant!

Before the law of gravity, no one thought that any masses were simply attracted. although everyone knew that the earth was attractive.
did not notice because there was a strong shielding effect of the planet’s gravitational field.

it decreases back prop. squared simple three-dimensional distance.

and according to Pavlov, no one noticed the interaction of four-dimensional material events because this interaction decreases even faster.

third degree.
but not just a simple distance,
and four-dimensional space-time interval
the farther and the longer, the less. but in the third degree.



Inovet ©   (2016-07-23 11:38) [329]

> [328] iop © (23.07.16 09: 59)

A lot of beautiful things were and are invented in physics, most of this beauty does not apply to our world, only a small part has been confirmed. It’s a common thing, it’s also a science, in order to consider and verify different options, and not to believe.



Копир ©   (2016-07-23 19:30) [330]

> iop © (23.07.16 09: 59) [328]:
> no, I certainly don’t know for sure whether Pavlov and Penrose are mistaken, but,
hell, it's beautiful and elegant!

And you and Roger Penrose "in the know."
Then, of course, I take my words back.
About uncertainty, i.e.

> we do not know why the orbital speeds of stars in the galaxy decrease greatly
slower than Newton and Einstein predict.
So in the galaxy there is a lot of dark mass.
And this mass is very magical.

I also thought about it.
Long.
And I came to the conclusion that the mysterious lambda member is responsible for the "dark" mass
in the Einstein equations.

The great physicist did not want (or did not have time) to decipher the physical meaning
this member.
I became interested in creating a unified field theory ...

> third degree.
but not just a simple distance,
and the four-dimensional space-time interval -
the farther and the longer, the less. but in the third degree.

In addition to knowledge of physical laws, there is also knowledge about symmetries.
Nowhere has nature ever given birth to a single law
(from acoustics to general relativity), where a "third degree" would be present.

Either r, or r2, at worst - r4 :)



Копир ©   (2016-07-23 19:44) [331]

> Inovet © (23.07.16 11: 38) [329]:
> Many beautiful things were and are invented in physics, most of this
beauty does not apply to our world, only a small part has been confirmed.

Just as all physical laws work.
Even if we don’t know about them :)



Копир ©   (2016-07-23 19:56) [332]

> iop © (23.07.16 09: 59) [328]:
> Moreover, this mass is very magical.

Or, for example, why do not they take into account the possible rotation of the universe?
Even uniform, it gives acceleration, which means mass.

A globally rotating universe is not fiction.
Gödel's decision (1949).

Which, by the way, allows closed time-like world lines.
And this, I suppose, should surprise you, who knows about the 4 interval,
worse than some Pavlov with a "third degree" :)



Копир ©   (2016-07-23 20:26) [333]

However, we are somewhat removed from the topic.
Carried away by cosmology with the filing of uv. mister iop.

Cosmology, as a science directly related to termino mundi, of course
also moritological.

The thermal death of the Universe has not left the lips of all scientists since the time of the Silver Age.

The beginning of thermodynamics brought mankind into a state of stupor.

Those. "why do we have to achieve something if the sun goes out"?
Then, - and why, if there is a "singularity"?

The sapiens man was so different from the reader of textbooks,
that for a minute he didn’t believe what he read.

The most synthetic answer to textbooks and any propaganda in general
was the response of the Cossacks from the movie "The Elusive Avengers": Bullshit!



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-23 20:45) [334]

Dear, I want to tell you one wise parable. My grandfather Nomto told me when I dropped his needles into his grandmother's pilaf pilaf. Grandfather Nomto told this parable to his grandfather, and to his grandfather - his great-grandfather. In short, they told each other for a long time. We have ancestors like fleas on a ram. It was like this: one young shaman had a dream - as if he is a butterfly and she falls asleep and sees in a dream a young shaman. When he woke up, he asked himself: “So who am I, dear? A butterfly who sleeps and sees a young shaman, or a young shaman who sleeps and sees a butterfly? ”This question tormented him for many years until he met an even wiser shaman. He listened to his story and replied: "It is very simple - you are a young shaman who, in a butterfly dream, saw a young shaman who is sleeping and sees a butterfly." It was then that the young shaman changed the “assemblage point” and never asked anyone else questions, because he had answers to all the questions. He just smiled and asked the apprentices - very young shamans - to take him out of time on time, otherwise he would begin to weave a cocoon. And the moral of this parable is this: do not bother eternity with stupid questions, she has a lot of worries even without you.



Копир ©   (2016-07-23 20:46) [335]

Humanity as a unique example of survival in a gloomy and hostile
Universe, and it’s wonderful that for a minute did not believe any of
him open laws.

Those. laws are a little son for enlightenment, but how will he be enlightened,
let the earth help me to plow!

Science and art arose from an excess of food.

And these same excesses led to the emergence of new sciences.
And the arts.

A positive feedback was formed.

Which led to an excess of food and to a complete absence
needs for new knowledge.

In this sense, I spoke of a shortage of ideas and inventions.

A hungry man is cunning, resourceful and inventive.
A well-fed Roman patrician is lazy and stupid.

Spartak with his gang of robbers and therefore managed to conquer
half of the Roman Empire.



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-07-23 20:46) [336]

(c) Steal Tarantina



картман ©   (2016-07-23 23:15) [337]


> A hungry man is cunning, resourceful and inventive.

USA is the most starving country



Тракторист ©   (2016-07-24 10:43) [338]

Copier © (23.07.16 19: 30) [330]
Either r, or r2, at worst - r4 :)

Or r3, as in the field of an electric dipole.
In the worst case ...



Германн ©   (2016-07-25 01:12) [339]


> Cartman C (23.07.16 23: 15) [337]
>
>
Quoted1>> Hungry man is cunning, resourceful and inventive.
>
> USA - the most starving country

Not. The fastest is Japan. And the United States is only pretending.



El ©   (2016-07-26 01:24) [340]

Philosophy. The historical being of God.
http://www.pravoslavie.ru/95572.html



Inovet ©   (2016-07-26 03:57) [341]

> [340] El © (26.07.16 01: 24)

340 !!!
Well, yo-mayo. We are here, it seems, literate gathered. No need for these "evidence" based on fabrications (a good word - phonetically consistent with smoking smoke and inhale / exhale). Does my post fall under the rule breaking point?



Тракторист ©   (2016-07-26 12:37) [342]

So what!
It's just fi-lo-so-fi-i.
Although proving the existence of God is an empty exercise.
It’s the same as proving the existence of music, painting ...
All this certainly is.



Тракторист ©   (2016-07-26 12:41) [343]

God is no less real than our Copier.
If he has not died yet, of course.
Yes, even if he has already died, he will still remain no less real than God, for example, or music, there ...



iop ©   (2016-07-26 13:11) [344]

Or, for example, why do not they take into account the possible rotation of the universe?
Even uniform, it gives acceleration, which means mass.


do not take into account because she has nothing to rotate. (she is the universe)

and if it does rotate
then we immediately return to the question of the orbital velocities of not stars, but galaxies on the periphery of the universe.

and ..... congratulations!
you have just abolished the need for dark matter by torsion of the universe. but now very soon you will need "completely dark matter" to be prepared for the fact that the universe is spinning not in Newton too.



ухты ©   (2016-07-26 13:12) [345]

Whether God is or not, is not in the know, but the fact that the world not only consists of the material has long been no longer a question.
Physicists have long and successfully worked with such concepts (field, waves, holes, etc., etc.) that are not real / material / ... but have certain properties and are fixed in the process of experiments, etc.
Ankylosing spondylitis (whose name is the brain institute) at the end also recognized that everything that happens in the head and not only besides physiology / .. there is something else (intangible - a soul or something) without which it is impossible to explain everything.



iop ©   (2016-07-26 13:15) [346]

all that is fixed in experience is material.

there is no more material.



Копир ©   (2016-07-26 13:27) [347]

> Tractor driver © (26.07.16 12: 41) [343]:
> God is no less real than our Copier.
If he has not died yet, of course.
Yes, even if he has already died, he will still remain no less real than God,
for example, or music, there ...

Thanks for the kind words !

I could not leave a larger “monument”, like this one of yours :)



Копир ©   (2016-07-26 13:29) [348]

> iop © (26.07.16 13: 11) [344]:
> not taken into account because she has nothing to rotate. (she is the universe)

How is it - "nothing"?
By her own.
The angular velocity vector is.
And away we go :)

> you just canceled the need for dark matter by torsion

Torsion and rotation are two different things (if you know the mechanics
(and you, I suppose, know her)).

Such things can be confused with a thread to a programmer.
But you, it seems to me, cannot: _



Тракторист ©   (2016-07-26 13:34) [349]

Still alive!
Only Kaif left a larger “monument”.
But could not resist :(



iop ©   (2016-07-26 13:35) [350]

The angular velocity vector is.
And away we go :)


the soul rushed to paradise ....
what is the angular velocity vector?
what is measured out?

try to turn your head when there is nothing outside, and there is only a head.

try turning your head around your head.
and we will pretend that we are not there and measure the angular velocity vector.



Копир ©   (2016-07-26 13:48) [351]

> Wow © (26.07.16 13: 12) [345]

Is there a god or not, not in the know, but the fact that the world not only consists of material
has long been no longer a question.
Physicists have long and successfully worked with such concepts (field, waves, holes, etc., etc.),
which are not material / material / ... but have certain properties
and are recorded during experiments, etc.

SW Mr. Ukhta, fields, and “holes” are no less material than stones and stars.
They are simply not objects, but processes.

Here, you see a wave at sea.
Those. water movement.

Why is it not material?

And "holes" in semiconductors. These are the waves of charges :)

Physicists (I assure you) have long and successfully worked with material
phenomena because physics is not a philosophy that operates with concepts,
and science based on facts.

Of course, I do not want to belittle the importance of the sciences working "according to concepts":
philosophy, epistemology, ethics and aesthetics, for example.

These sciences help us master the facts, open new perspectives,
and, that’s very important:

In the film "Stalker", an outstanding actor Yuri Yarvet pronounced the famous
phrase, - A man needs a man.

So, the humanities allow a person to remain human.

And not the "proletariat", for example, in the materialistic science of political economy.



Тракторист ©   (2016-07-26 13:52) [352]

iop © (26.07.16 13: 35) [350]

So, after all, we can be (far from God, of course) so far from the galaxies that we cannot distinguish anything.
But the forces of inertia are palpable, however.
Who knows, does the Universe feel, as a source of inertia forces, all other universes from the Multiverse, which it does not see, but which, by indirect signs, is aware of its existence, eh?



iop ©   (2016-07-26 13:58) [353]

What are the other multiverse?

boch created only one.
I read about it.

and she has nowhere to spin.



Копир ©   (2016-07-26 14:00) [354]

> iop © (26.07.16 13: 35) [350]:
> try turning your head when there is nothing outside, and there is only a head.

Easily :)

Mr. ipor, the rotation is independent of the coordinate system.
Therefore (did you think?) Kurt Godel proposed this solution.
A. Einstein, when they both lived in Princeton (New Jersey, USA).

Great Einstein changed his mind a lot about what rotation
allows you to fall into the past.

(Time-locked world-like lines mean this).

But then he forgave his friend Gödel and excused himself by saying that
there is no evidence that the universe is spinning.



Тракторист ©   (2016-07-26 14:11) [355]

iop © (26.07.16 13: 58) [353]
What are the other multiverse?
boch created only one.
I read about it.
and she has nowhere to spin.

Well, you know ...
In those sources that you are talking about, not only about the Multiverse, but about the Universe, it’s not very intelligible.
In short, the wrong books you read.



Копир ©   (2016-07-26 14:25) [356]

prominent actor Yuri Yarvet pronounced the famous
phrase, - A man needs a man, in the film "Solaris", of course!

What is going on with my head?
What is happened?



iop ©   (2016-07-26 14:27) [357]

Therefore (did you think?) Kurt Godel proposed this solution.

nonsense.
he proposed such a solution because he also knew that
there is no evidence that the universe is spinning.



Копир ©   (2016-07-26 14:31) [358]

> iop © (26.07.16 13: 58) [353]:
> what else are these "multiverse"?

> God created only one.
I read about it.

Well, suppose you're right.

But the argument about "read about it" does not stand
no criticism.

And often do you use it?



iop ©   (2016-07-26 14:36) [359]

I did not understand what crime was.

I read that boch made one and only one universe.
read in a book.

and said about it.



Копир ©   (2016-07-26 14:43) [360]

> iop © (26.07.16 14: 27) [357]:
nonsense.
he proposed such a solution because he also knew that
there is no evidence that the universe is spinning.

It is for you.
To you at your arbitration court.

You just run a minute on Google, huh?
And read who Kurt Gödel was long before
how Einstein baffled.

The mathematician Godel was probably the most outstanding
mathematical logician.

And Albert Einstein respectfully listened to his fantasies
about the universe that's why.

And not because ...

Kurt Gödel is the only one.

The first after the skeptics and the last after Aristotle
made mankind think about the boundaries of knowledge.

Those. that perhaps even the truth itself is not subject to
to a person.

Even to God.

And all "on a plate."
Carefully.
In the theorems.



iop ©   (2016-07-26 14:46) [361]

in the greek hall, in the greek hall ...
ah appolon, ah appolon .....

perhaps truth is not subject to God,
but Gödel knows
that the universe is spinning.



Копир ©   (2016-07-26 14:48) [362]

> iop © (26.07.16 14: 46) [361]:
> in the Greek hall, in the Greek hall ...

Repeat yourself.
So there are no ideas.
So - exhausted :)



iop ©   (2016-07-26 14:52) [363]

how to say, how to say.

if I stick between the posts every time for the same week as the copier,
then the bill will be in favor of iop.



Копир ©   (2016-07-26 14:57) [364]

> iop © (26.07.16 14: 52) [363]:
> if I keep sticking between posts every time for a week like a copier,
then the bill will be in favor of iop.

And you keep the score :))

Oh!

I'm losing track of you!

Hold and use.

You are a naive person :)



iop ©   (2016-07-26 15:03) [365]

copier, you are a dishonest person.

first provoke, hinting that iop is exhausted, that he has fewer ideas than copied ideas.

out of politeness, I pretend to be seduced.

and right there about some accounts and statistics.

out of courtesy, I will not clarify whether you considered my posts about Apollo, when you realized that I was repeating or it was a divine revelation.



Копир ©   (2016-07-26 15:22) [366]

> iop © (26.07.16 15: 03) [365]:
> or it was a divine revelation.

Divine revelation will never allow slander
Justified.
Blame.
Show off.

Probably the most valuable in writing letters was acquired
not some Babylonian master of clay tablets,
not a Scythian sculptor on skins,
not a walnut master.

No.

A complete orgasm from the spelling of letters acquired John Gutenberg
and his namesake Ivan Fedorov.

With their machines.

The buzz from the messages was not about quality, but about quantity.
Probably the only case in the history of Culture,
when Gaia defeated Athena.

And Zeus was silent.
When quantity triumphed over quality.



iop ©   (2016-07-26 15:34) [367]

sadness!
everything means even worse.

there was no revelation to you; you considered me and kept statistics, a copier.

counted in cold blood and began to show off saying that you leave the bill for me, so I kept and used.

ah yai yai!
how nekarasho!



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-07-26 17:00) [368]

Copier © (26.07.16 13: 48) [351]

I apologize, of course, but holes? Holes are a convention.



Тракторист ©   (2016-07-26 18:40) [369]

In fact, they are not a big convention than conduction electrons - the same quasiparticles.



ухты ©   (2016-07-26 20:39) [370]

Are virtual particles also material?



Копир ©   (2016-07-26 20:40) [371]

> Igor Shevchenko © (26.07.16 17: 00) [368]:
I apologize, of course, but holes? Holes are a convention.

Well, and the convention into which you fell near Kemer.
In peak or pause wave?
Where is the convention?

Is it the reality that will cover you “in the middle” with your head?
Or that which will beat off the coast, and the children will scream, - Dad! Dad! Come back!



Копир ©   (2016-07-26 20:41) [372]

> Tractor driver © (26.07.16 18: 40) [369]
> In fact, they are no more conventional than conduction electrons-such
the same quasiparticles.

And yes. And no.
Conduction electrons - this should not be touched by the udder
my native victorian style.

Georg Simon Om (self-titled law), JJ Thomson, who introduced
electron as is.

This is a classic of the time.
And a classic worldview.

The fact is that Mr. Tractor driver is not right only in
which considers real electrons to be quasi-electrons.

And, of course, right, because the modern theory of particles,
for which the "electrons" - ugh ...
There are Baryons, damn it, quarks, strangenesses, charms (almost a girl, out :)



Тракторист ©   (2016-07-26 20:54) [373]

Copier © (26.07.16 20: 41) [372]
> Tractor driver © (26.07.16 18: 40) [369]
> In fact, they are no more conventional than conduction electrons-such
the same quasiparticles.
The fact is that Mr. Tractor driver is not right only in
which considers real electrons to be quasi-electrons.

No no.
I do not consider real electrons quasi-electrons, but I consider conduction electrons quasiparticles.
The electrons there somehow move, mainly compensating for each other's movements.
But all together carry a charge.
What kind of electrons do this is not clear.
In this case, the resulting charge carriers have some effective mass, different from the mass of a free electron, mobility and other characteristics.
This is quasiparticle.
Just like with holes.



Тракторист ©   (2016-07-26 21:13) [374]

Copier © (26.07.16 20: 41) [372]
There are Baryons, damn it, quarks, strangenesses, charms (almost a girl, out :)

By the way, about the quarks.
I mentioned above about a very real physical object, an electric dipole, in which in our completely three-dimensional space the field drops like r3 (in your terminology).
Clearly, one can find fault and say that this is not a fundamental object at all, but something composite.
Therefore, the field he behaves in this way.
I am ready to object to this: how many really fundamental physical objects do we know?
Maybe an electron? Perhaps Vladimir Ilyich burst when he spoke of his inexhaustibility? May be. And he just has r2.
But the proton is certainly not as simple as the electron, although it also has r2.
The proton, it seems, consists of quarks.
And quarks are very reluctant to separate from their fellows.
To peel off the quark from the other two, you need to make an effort of the order of 10 tons.
But that's not all. We pulled it off and dragged it somewhere to the edge of the solar system.
So what?
And the fact that he is still striving for his two brothers with an effort exactly in the same tons.
And it turns out that power behaves like r0.
In our three-dimensional space ...



TohaNik ©   (2016-07-26 21:13) [375]

I am very happy for Yuri Zotov and Sergey Shcherbakov :). Health and Good luck to grandchildren and future great-grandchildren!



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-07-26 21:24) [376]

Copier © (26.07.16 20: 40) [371]

I didn’t fall anywhere, no fantasy



Копир ©   (2016-07-26 21:25) [377]

> Tractor driver © (26.07.16 20: 54) [373]:

Do you know Mr. Tractor driver?

I didn’t defend my diploma in religion.
Not in economics.

In physics.
And the topic of my diploma was the so-called squid.
Josephson contact.

Literally.
In the words of Ark. Raikin, “As I recall, I will tremble!”

The topic was not given for several months.
It is very difficult to find a “weak” contact in Nb (in niobium).
Yes, when the first time.
Yes, when the deputy. project manager laughs all the way
upon you.

However, Anatoly Zavaritsky laughed at me.
The son of that Zavaritsky whom you will find.



Inovet ©   (2016-07-26 21:30) [378]

> [345] ears © (26.07.16 13: 12)
> with such concepts (field, waves, holes, etc. etc.),
> which are not material / material

A new word in physics. Since when is our field not material there?



Тракторист ©   (2016-07-26 21:35) [379]

Copier © (26.07.16 21: 25) [377]
I didn’t defend my diploma in religion.
Not in economics.
In physics.

- What happened to you, brother?
- I do not know...
© People in Black 3



Копир ©   (2016-07-26 21:43) [380]

> Tractor driver © (26.07.16 20: 54) [373]:

And that was in my last year.
At the Institute of Physics Problems of Peter Kapitsa.
Then just received the Nobel Prize.

And I am still grateful to the satyr and scoffer Anatoly Zavaritsky.

1. He told my supervisor, “No, well, you sent :)

2. I have since been the same. I reason.



Тракторист ©   (2016-07-26 22:04) [381]

Lucky!
And to me on the state in physics Berestetskiy VB 5 points set.
And in vain ...



Inovet ©   (2016-08-03 22:41) [382]

Yura, everything is not true, and if it’s true, then everything is scorched whiskey and crushed chalk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF0BSgAA2DA
Hold (those) yourself!



Inovet ©   (2016-08-03 22:49) [383]

> [382] Inovet © (03.08.16 22: 41)

It is a pity that Boris Rubekin (keys) is no longer with us. We all leave at different times, and are often not free to choose it.



Копир ©   (2016-08-04 19:50) [384]

> Inovet © (03.08.16 22: 41) [382]:
> Jura, everything is not true, and if it is true, then everything is scorched whiskey and crushed chalk

Thank you Andrey!

BG, as always, "on top".
Amazing artist - not a single song even has a hint of protest,
but always "frontier" :)



Копир ©   (2016-08-04 23:04) [385]

And here, to you, Andrey.
You feel thin rhythm, something like a poem of BG.
True, his verse is almost "white" with a complex, interlaced rhyme.
Well, such plagiarism from the singer’s phrases.

Do not judge strictly, huh?
---

Someone knows how to distort words
Someone and Blok forget?
But "for BG" does not hurt the head
There was not, and never will be.

Old soviet, hippy almost,
So he speaks, and honored God.
And he managed, in a “scoop”, as he managed -
Singing about scorched whiskey and chalk?

Most importantly, give advice?
How to realize young
That there is no city.
Under the blue sky.

Who dares the poet to judge?
If he does not judge.
How?
How would it be? Merge?
Shem, Ham, Job, Babylon ...

Old residents of the old country
Songs are not sung from laziness.
All, well, not that,
But still sick
Decontradicating the shadow.

Formerly a great and formidable country.
In which everyone was so gloriously equal ...
Old soviet, hippy almost,
So he speaks, and honored God.



Inovet ©   (2016-08-05 01:22) [386]

> [384] Copier © (04.08.16 19: 50)
> Thank you, Andrey!
>
> BG, as always, "on top".
> Amazing artist - not a single song even has a hint of
> protest
> but always "frontier" :)

I am glad that you liked it, although I did not think so, but shared that, too, a lot.

And along the way. I remember once I objected to the "artist", now I do not mind. And as for the protest - it wasn’t so non-existent, unless unusualness can be taken for the protest (I almost wrote a nonsense there rhymes with the word above, well, see Lurk, but I didn’t want to say that - upbringing, however). I don’t understand the protest at all - against myself? so this is wrong.



Inovet ©   (2016-08-05 01:30) [387]

> [385] Copier © (04.08.16 23: 04)
> You feel the rhythm

Still would feel harmony. Now I will read your post.



Копир ©   (2016-08-05 01:48) [388]

> Inovet © (05.08.16 01: 22) [386]:
> I remember, once I objected to the "aristika", now I do not mind.
> And as for the protest-so it was not there and no

Of course not.
Andrey, what are you?
(about the protest i.e.)

And about the artist - this is a wonderful recognition!

You know (no, you already know, I’m saying this to others :)
sooner or later, but any techie or (especially) humanities
finds in himself not a candidate of sciences, not (from crazy imagination),
professors.

No.

Childhood has been in possession of men longer than they realize.
And a teenage girl, and a boy, and a lady, and a pensioner, all of them
one way or another, sooner or later they find an artist within themselves.

Like a toadstool, like poison in your own skin.

Emperor Nero, the villain, and the adulterer.
Oh, what an artist dies!

(he exclaimed when the Roman guard (and she does not like to joke)
invited the Emperor to take poison).

I wanted to consider here in my post.
Okay.



Inovet ©   (2016-08-05 02:18) [389]

Yura, I read. Well - well, you feel the knowledge of the source material. Quote what? (I ask myself). Additionally, for IS, we can talk about this in personal contacts, but I think that others will be interested. In addition - we are not going to leave the starting topic - everything is within its framework. Yura, do you also think so?

Yes. About quote, a little. No, I won’t. Just once again I remind you that "under the blue sky" is not BG authorship, but some cling to this song.

"There was no other, and never will be."



Inovet ©   (2016-08-05 02:21) [390]

> [389] Inovet © (05.08.16 02: 18)
> "There was no other, and never will be."

surely
It was not, and never will be.



Копир ©   (2016-08-05 02:32) [391]

> Inovet © (05.08.16 02: 18) [389]:
Andrey, you did not judge strictly.
Thank you.

All errors are mine.
And the whole show off is mine.
And, of course, you understand that this, your parody,
I do not want to immortalize my name.

You have long known that I will not be a great poet.
But I’ll point out the pen. (So ​​Gogol answered Belinsky).
As far as possible.

And, most importantly, I know who I am talking to :)

Really, you thought that I would dare to address
to someone besides you?

Not because I'm afraid of someone.



Inovet ©   (2016-08-05 02:41) [392]

> [391] Copier © (05.08.16 02: 32)

I will only supplement. Here in my phrase from the post above - "the knowledge of the source material is felt" - the emoticon was meant. But you probably yourself understood. :)



Копир ©   (2016-08-05 02:43) [393]

> Inovet © (05.08.16 02: 41) [392]:
Yes;)



Inovet ©   (2016-08-05 02:46) [394]

And then even in the subject of the "Stella Maris" thread, the first found on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhp5TIMpQbc



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-08-05 10:24) [395]

Inovet © (05.08.16 02: 18) [389]

"Additionally for IS - we can talk about it in personal contacts, but I think that it will be interesting to others too"

Not interested. If not difficult, continue the conversation privately.



Inovet ©   (2016-08-05 18:35) [396]

> [395] Igor Shevchenko © (05.08.16 10: 24)

Yes, we have already finished this fragment of the conversation.



MsGuns ©   (2016-08-06 23:49) [397]

> Copier © (04.08.16 23: 04) [385]
> Do not judge strictly, huh?

Can I do it strictly? Thanks.

Your poems, Yuri are not just bad, they are not poems at all. No thought is visible in them. No.
There are some fragmentary ideas that have nothing to do with each other, and expressed in a very strange manner. So say those who are not quite sensible. So say the children, who have a lot of emotions, but no thoughts.

Perhaps I have the impression of my own dense nature in the field of poetry, Andrei won out, but then he hurried to “insert” the emoticon.

Do not write, Yuri, poetry, do me a favor.
It does not suit you.



MsGuns ©   (2016-08-06 23:52) [398]

Once upon a time I heard ancient Chinese wisdom:
"There is nothing more complicated than simple."
In this context, this idea can be expressed as follows: "there is nothing more complicated than simply saying."

Threat. There is another saying, though I do not know whose: The word is silver, silence is gold.



Тракторист ©   (2016-08-07 02:36) [399]

MsGuns © (06.08.16 23: 49) [397]
Do not write, Yuri, poetry, do me a favor.

Yes, let him write!
Judging by the name of the topic, not long left.
Yes, and uv. The moderator can shorten this virtual life at any time.
Why find fault precisely with the fact that SW. The copier decided to call poetry?
He has that prose, that poetry - all in the same style.
Like, like, Pasternak.
In short, I like it!
The main thing is that there is practically no rhythm.
Why then rhyme ?!
Poems in prose. About nothing.
I would be in place of uv. The copier would not have entrusted anyone to write the epitaph on his own (i.e., uv. Kopira) tombstone.

Something like that:

"All errors are mine.
And the whole show off is mine.
And, of course, you understand that this, your parody,
I don’t want to immortalize my name. "

Is this good prose or already bad poems?
And maybe it's quite the opposite.

Who knows?

PS I thought, thought and decided that after the words "not long left" it would be possible to put a smiley.
But which one is sad or funny?
Unclear.



MsGuns ©   (2016-08-07 20:19) [400]

> Tractor driver © (07.08.16 02: 36) [399]

Autumn outside the window, a hospital blanket at the top, a dirty sheet at the bottom
In an empty abandoned ward no laughter is heard, only coughing and groans.
Wind-covered fallen leaf dances a waltz in stale air
Looking at him, I want to laugh: here he is - the end!
The one who only recently glittered with a poured emerald,
He climbed into the ears of a annoying mosquito, teased with an illusory freshness.

Where are the leaves buried? Isn’t it in those heap of heaps
Smoke burned for the joy of children?
And who or what are they? Where are the epitaphs, where are the widows with a black border on their heads,
Where are their children, looking in dismay at what had threatened them with a belt yesterday?
The unstoppable river of time washes away them, without pity and doubt
Leaves of oaks, poplars, birches - fire does not know races and peoples
Everyone is equal before him.



pavelnk ©   (2016-08-08 17:53) [401]

Something I did not understand. First, go - it is necessary. Examination, analyzes, this is one thing. Chemotherapy is different. At least they will do a general blood test and take the tissue for analysis if necessary. There is nothing wrong with that, I mean.



Копир ©   (2016-08-10 19:00) [402]

> MsGuns © (06.08.16 23: 49) [397]:
> So they say children who have a lot of emotions, but no thoughts.

You shouldn’t be so. About kids.
And what do you call "thoughts"?
Boring conclusions needed
to make money?

THEM. said, - Be like children.



Копир ©   (2016-08-10 19:00) [403]

> Tractor driver © (07.08.16 02: 36) [399]:
> Yes, let him write!
> Judging by the name of the topic, not long left.

But this is the best.
10 minutes lay and kicked with delight :)



MsGuns ©   (2016-08-10 19:05) [404]

> And what do you call "thoughts"?

“My speeches are not at all dirty tricks, as you deign to express themselves in the presence of a lady, but a string of firmly tied syllogisms that would be appreciated by experts like Sextus Empiricus, Marcian Capella, and Aristotle himself, who is good,”

;)



MsGuns ©   (2016-08-10 19:07) [405]

> Judging by the name of the topic, not long left.

I, too, at first “buv u shotsi”, but, thinking, decided that it was just black humor. Which, incidentally, is very fond of if he did not go and is not cynical.



Копир ©   (2016-08-10 19:13) [406]

> MsGuns © (10.08.16 19: 05) [404]:

A propos, about Bulgakov.
In his youth, he dreamed of becoming ...
No, not a writer.

Singer.

And even took lessons from a rather famous then
artist (I don’t remember who, but you’ll find it yourself if you want).

Artist, my friend, Artist!



MsGuns ©   (2016-08-10 19:16) [407]

> You should not be so. About kids.

Nonsense. I love children a lot more than adults. Because they still do not know how to hypocrite. But logic is not available to them. Logic requires not only knowledge, but also life experience. Which they cannot have by definition :)

Your "poems", uv. Yuri, is a pathetic attempt to say something very important in a non-standard way. Like, "I see like that, and you try to understand what I was thinking when I wrote them." At the same time, of course, you didn’t have a holistic thought, an idea when writing these "poems", but you had a desire to make original, seem like a "Black Square".

But you, alas, are not Malevich, who, besides the “square”, still had a whole School of Painting, which he opened to crowds of followers.
What School did you open, Yuri, where are your fans?

"You want to walk like a neglected garden,
Can you shave everything off
Both that, and another I saw more than once
Who did you want to surprise? "



MsGuns ©   (2016-08-10 19:22) [408]

So, as Afanasyich wrote, few wrote. Pushkin, Leskov, Gogol .. Even Dostoevsky and Leo did not write like that. This is a gift. Over. This cannot be learned.
But you can completely learn something else. And to everyone.

Do not try to do what you cannot.



ухты ©   (2016-08-10 19:24) [409]


> You want to walk like a neglected garden
if so in quotation marks, then you should you can walk))



Копир ©   (2016-08-10 19:27) [410]

> Tractor driver © (07.08.16 02: 36) [399]:
> I would be in place of uv. The copier would not have entrusted anyone to write the epitaph on his own (i.e., uv. Kopira) tombstone.

Catherine the Great also did not want her life
evaluated by someone else.
In the prime of life, from an indefatigable imagination, she came up with
epitaph about herself:

"Here lies Catherine the Second, born in Stettin on 21 on April 1729.
She arrived in Russia in the 1744 year to marry Peter III.
For fourteen years old, she had a triple intention - to please her husband,
Empress Elizabeth and the people.

She had not forgotten anything to be in time with this.

For eighteen years of boredom and solitude, she involuntarily read many books.
Having ascended the Russian throne, she wished well and tried to deliver
happiness, freedom and property to their subjects.

She easily forgave and did not hate anyone.
Compassionate, courteous, naturally merry,
with a republican soul and with a good heart, she had friends.

Work was easy for her, she loved art and being in public. "

It, of course, the Empress could afford such a poem.
Yes in gold letters, yes on marble.

The current prices of tombstones, graves, etc. attributes do not allow me
hope that my unhappy family can pay for such a vast
moritological paragraph.

I also know the epitaph.
To myself.
She is shorter than Catherine :)



MsGuns ©   (2016-08-10 19:27) [411]

I inserted the word “want” intentionally, with a hint :)



MsGuns ©   (2016-08-10 19:31) [412]

Compare yourself with Catherine the Great .. Odd ..
Yes, you, Yuri, megalomania. In any case, sometimes such a thought comes (not "emotion", and it is precisely "thought" as a product of a chain of interconnected reasoning)



Копир ©   (2016-08-10 19:35) [413]

> MsGuns © (10.08.16 19: 16) [407]:
> What School did you open, Yuri, where are your fans?

None.
And never tried.

Schools on online forums do not open.
There (i.e. here) are engaged in the fact that in the past the authors of the site
called the witty verb "fuss".

It's just that the level of interlocutors here is much higher than "at the corner of the store."
Where no one opens schools either ...



Копир ©   (2016-08-10 20:25) [414]

> MsGuns © (10.08.16 19: 16) [407]:
> I love children a lot more than adults ...
But logic is not available to them.
Logic requires not only knowledge, but also life experience.
Which they cannot have by definition.

By what definition?

Korney Chukovsky cited in his book "From Two to Five"
examples of amazing, just amazing baby logic,
completely unavailable to boring adults.

And then, what kind of life experience do you want to talk about?

Do you mean empirical experience?

So young Pushkin was in this sense much weaker than old Derzhavin.
And the latter managed to catch that the young poet was more experienced than him.

Well, Derzhavin was also a poet.

"Ach, die Dichter haben alles gekannt!" (S. Freud).
(Ah, the poets always knew everything! ").



Копир ©   (2016-08-10 20:52) [415]

> MsGuns © (10.08.16 19: 16) [407]:

And finally, it seems to me that you, like every person,
who knows the story is not perfect (do not be offended :) I know the same :)
underestimate the importance of mythology.

Children, they, after all, feed their logic not from textbooks,
who still can’t read.

And from fairy tales, legends and toasts, for which Shurik went
to the all-union granary "Caucasus".

A technician specialist in a primitive sense, with the word "mythology"
already warps from misunderstanding.

And let's recall that Boris Strugatsky has finished MehMat,
that Stanislav Lem was, like Bulgakov, a doctor.
And Isaac Asimov - a biochemist.

I will allow myself some free reasoning with which perhaps
not everyone agrees.
But nevertheless ...

No techie is a real specialist if he is not a poet in his soul.

One more thing.

No one will gain experience no matter how much he has lived,
no matter how many cones you get from life,
if you don’t know children's fairy tales.

Mythology.



iop ©   (2016-08-10 22:49) [416]

Deleted by moderator



Копир ©   (2016-08-12 12:55) [417]

> MsGuns © (10.08.16 19: 16) [407]:
> Your "poems", SW. Yuri, is a pathetic attempt to say
about something very important in a non-standard way.

> But you, alas, not Malevich, who besides "kvadrata", was still
the whole School in painting, which he opened to crowds of followers.

And here I agree with you.
Salvador Dali, this "hippie from art" at the next gathering of avant-garde artists
one little girl asked to draw a "horse".

Dali masterfully painted a classic horse with a pencil,
quite in the spirit of da Vinci!

Of course, contemporary art (especially fine art) is very controversial.

But you caught the main idea - all artists are trying to say
"about something very important."

Not enough talent, training, schools.
But on the other hand, sincerity and desire are enough to at least respect
these attempts.

So the child stumbles, falls and rises again.
And studying. To walk.



Копир ©   (2016-08-12 13:08) [418]

> pavelnk © (08.08.16 17: 53) [401]:
> First, go-it is necessary.
There is nothing wrong with that, I mean.

Of course. But I am a very impressionable person.
And a pessismist. And to me, it's not that scary, but sad somehow ...

However, on Monday I’m flying to Barcelona on vacation.
My friend programmer lives there for the second year.
And he knows the doctors. Gishpan.

Although, here, Andrei Tarkovsky was treated in Italy.
And he called after the operation in Moscow, they say, I feel great.

And a few months later he died.



Копир ©   (2016-08-12 13:37) [419]

> Rincewind © (19.07.16 16: 44) [282]:
> Drawing can be a property simply obtained by the brain
into the load to another, more valuable property.
Say, the ability to imagine an object in detail in the mind can be useful after a hunt ...

This is yes.
There was such a theory that consciousness is not the goal of development, but just an “epiphenomenon”, i.e. concomitant phenomenon.
The load on reflex abilities :)

But only dull (and naive) materialists can argue this way.

The most important (and most controversial) is the answer to the question, - And development
(anything, even the development of amoeba) is it striving for some goal?

Or is it "on its own"?
Like a chemical reaction.

The difference between materialists and idealists is not the question, "Is there a God?"

And in recognizing or denying the goal of development.



Копир ©   (2016-08-12 14:46) [420]

> MsGuns © (15.07.16 00: 36) [28]:
> The question of death is the most important question of life.

Because the veiled question of purpose.

> I read somewhere that death is the climax, the quintessence of a person’s life.
He lived honestly and cleanly - you die quietly and painlessly.
He offended others, made money, took someone else's - and death will be grave, painful.

It is unlikely? (As Comrade Sukhov said).

What did Tarkovsky take the alien?

Or Albert Camus, who died in a car accident.
Very painful.

But the same Camus wrote the story "Plague", where he gives examples of death,
not as inevitability, but as fate.

Here - you need to feel the subtle difference.
Death as inevitability threatens everyone.
And as fate doesn’t threaten :)

I believe that the moderator will not take my next quote
to propaganda of religion.
Because I propose to recall the cultural phenomenon, the tradition,
when the Church prays for all sinners and astray.

And he calls "for the end of painless, shameful, peaceful."

What's bad about it?



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-08-12 17:20) [421]


> However, on Monday I’m flying to Barcelona on vacation


This is class!



Копир ©   (2016-08-24 14:27) [422]

> This is a class!

Igor, thanks for the compliment :)

However, there is no special class.
A very expensive trip to make sure
that Spanish doctors inherit Spanish
inquisitors.

I lazily tried to prove theirs
hotel clerks that come from Russia
worthy people.

And not refugees languishing from "sanctions."

"- Roll you to ..." Reinhart said joyfully.
The shower always annoyed them.
If you don’t answer them in the first minutes, they imagine
that you hanged yourself in the closet.
Such an option, in general, suited them.

“But I'm not dead,” Reinhart said to his reflection in the mirror.
I am only injured.
Support me, friends, I’m only injured. "

Robert Stone "In the Mirrors."



Ринсвинд ©   (2016-08-24 16:26) [423]


> However, there is no special class.
> A very expensive trip to make sure
> that Spanish doctors inherit Spanish
> inquisitors.

And what is the result, if not secret? Worst suspicions refuted?



Копир ©   (2016-08-24 16:54) [424]

> Rincewind © (24.08.16 16: 26) [423]:
> Worst suspicions refuted?

Rather, it is simply not confirmed.



Inovet ©   (2016-08-27 23:09) [425]

> [424] Copier © (24.08.16 16: 54)
> Rather, they are simply not confirmed.

Here you are, a little crazy, positive in the branch. Nothing outstanding, of course, but today I wanted to write it down.

August 27 25

The ice has melted by early September
and appeared yellow on green.
It seems like thanks to him,
i feel a little bit in love
during the eternal flame
into the diffused light of a holy union.

Laughing mad Ra above
do moths circle on blue, Muses?
And that one - another inside me -
everyone smiles, fastening their ties.

27.08.2016



Копир ©   (2016-08-30 13:50) [426]

> Inovet © (27.08.16 23: 09) [425]:
> do moths circle on blue, Muses?
And that one - another inside me -
everyone smiles, fastening their ties.

Andrey !
Highly !

Your verses?

I always knew that your programmer mask
hides the poet.

Even if the verses are not yours, anyway. Hides :)



Inovet ©   (2016-08-30 14:26) [427]

> [426] Copier © (30.08.16 13: 50)
> Your verses?

Well yes. Thank you for the assessment, although I consider it primitive - solid stamps, and many can. But if I wanted to capture this not (o) sonnet for this branch, so why not transfer it from consciousness to a view accessible to others. And in his mind he was better - while he was suffering, something managed to change and forget. :)

The main thing - you were pleased. You - do not get sick!



Копир ©   (2016-08-30 15:48) [428]

> Inovet © (30.08.16 14: 26) [427]:
> even though I consider it primitive-solid cliches, and many can.

Uh ... Don’t tell!

Pushkin scattered left and right not poetry, but rhyme blanks.
And many of his friends in the Lyceum (Delvig) are not that envious ...

The hope of the future poet, when "old Derzhavin noticed us" took place,
because when Pushkin not only remembered Lyceum, but with intent:

"Oh, a great age of military debate,
Witness of the glory of the Russians!
You saw Orlov, Rumyantsev and Suvorov,
Descendants of the formidable Slavs,
Perun Zeusov stole the victory;
Fearing their brave exploits, the world wondered;
Derzhavin and Petrov rattled the heroes of the song
The strings of loud-sounding lyres. "

But, they say (the same Delvig) that the graduate Sasha Pushkin captured
Derzhavin is not flattering in this poem.

And, as usual, then, "on the sidelines" when, for the first time, probably
gave a hint about his first poem (not about verses to girls-cleaners of the Lyceum),
but about Ruslan and Lyudmila.



Inovet ©   (2016-08-30 17:44) [429]

> [428] Copier © (30.08.16 15: 48)

Generally here about the moth

* * *

Zk

Fly from here, white moth.
I left you life. It is an honor
and a sign that your path is not far away.
Fly faster. I'll take care of the wind.
I’m also dying after you myself.
Rush faster over bare gardens.
Forward, dear. My last advice:
Be careful over the wires.
Well, I instructed you not to tell,
but a certain persistent dream;
you must be one of those creatures
flickering in the fields of metempsychosis.
Look, don't get under the wheel
and the birds pass the deceitful movement.
And draw my face before her
in an empty cafe. And in the foggy air.

1960

(Joseph Brodsky)



Копир ©   (2016-08-31 13:27) [430]

> Inovet © (30.08.16 17: 44) [429]:
> Well, I instructed you not to tell,
but a certain persistent dream;
you must be one of those creatures
flickering in the fields of metempsychosis.

(Joseph Brodsky).

Hmm.
And they tried to "hang" an article for this person
about parasitism ...

Your remark is good because you succeeded
touch on the topic of the branch, i.e. relocation of souls.

This is only very versatile people succeed
so, as if by the way, to pursue a goal.

Vl. Vysotsky sang, - The Indians came up with a good religion:
That we, "having given up the ends," do not die for good!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTRQV7PmNKw

The posthumous relocation of the soul is not only Indian fiction.
Both the Greeks (Plato) and the Egyptians (Hermes Trismegistus) are actively
used the idea of ​​metempsychosis for modeling
life after death.

Christianity is just a baby (in terms of the age of the idea).
Hell is not a Christian invention (the Greek Hades, the Jewish Hell of Fire).

However, Christians obediently use this idea, shyly
renaming it "reincarnation" :)

But with reservations, of course:
the human soul will never become the soul of a lizard, for example.

Man and man toil for the rest of eternity!



Inovet ©   (2016-09-01 13:21) [431]

> [430] Copier © (31.08.16 13: 27)

This Brodsky succeeded in 20 years, not me in 50, and some others succeed in 20.



Inovet ©   (2016-09-02 06:08) [432]

> [431] Inovet © (01.09.16 13: 21)
> not me at 50

failed, meant.



El ©   (2016-09-03 22:34) [433]

The posthumous resettlement of the soul among the Indians is paganism, like Hades, i.e. hell among the ancient Greeks, where souls descended into eternal darkness. Only Christianity gives the right attitude to death, this is a temporary state, like a dream. Resurrection after death is only with Christianity. The human soul is immortal.



Inovet ©   (2016-09-03 23:49) [434]

> [433] El © (03.09.16 22: 34)
> The human soul is immortal.

Everyone is talking about this and there is no reason for Holly Var. After all, here we are literate and well-read versatile, and not in one religion. I correctly expressed the idea?



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-09-03 23:54) [435]

El © (03.09.16 22: 34) [433]

We read the rules carefully.



Копир ©   (2016-09-06 14:02) [436]

> El © (03.09.16 22: 34) [433]:
> The posthumous resettlement of the soul among the Indians is paganism, like Hades,
those. hell among the ancient Greeks, where souls descended into eternal darkness.
Only Christianity gives the right attitude to death, this is a temporary state, like a dream.
Resurrection after death is only with Christianity. The human soul is immortal.

You see, you’re in your conviction, almost in didactics,
violate (in addition to the rules of the forum) the principle of Christianity - tolerance.

And what about the ancient philosophers and thinkers?
Put them in the "First Circle" of Christian hell, as Dante did?

For what?
For what they were born and did before the birth of Christ?

What about Indian philosophers and thinkers?
Chinese, Jewish, Roman?

You must understand that in this way smoothly rolls
to the principles of the Inquisition.

To negative sanctions instead of love and understanding.
Christ, I think, would agree with me.

There is nothing sinful in paganism, if you argue not from the point
view of Christian ideology, which, like any ideology, is harmful.

Remember the parable of the Samaritan woman at the well?

Become a little ashamed. True?



Kerk ©   (2016-09-06 14:22) [437]


> El © (03.09.16 22: 34) [433]
>
> The posthumous resettlement of the soul among the Indians is paganism, as
> and Hades, i.e. the hell of the ancient Greeks, where souls descended into
> eternal darkness. Christianity alone gives the right attitude
> to death, this is a temporary condition, like a dream. Resurrection
> after death, only Christianity. The human soul is immortal.
>

One day a young brahmana named Vasettha came to Gotama. “There is only one direct path,” he announced, “the path of salvation leading one who walks along it to the union with Brahma, which was proclaimed by the Brahman Pokkharasati!” Gotama asked him if any of the Brahmins saw Brahma face to face. Since God is invisible and incomprehensible, Vasettha had to answer, "No." Then, Gotama retorted, any statements about the path that leads to union with Brahma should be unfounded. “As blind men go in jumble, clinging to each other, and the leader does not see, and the middle ones do not see, and the rear ones do not see, these are the sense of the brahmanas. Their speeches are funny, empty words. ” Then he compared a man who passionately believes in God with a man who claims to be in love with the most beautiful girl on earth, but when he is persistently asked what she looks like, he is forced to admit that he has never seen her in his life.

In this complex and ever-changing field, there are no wormholes through which you can get to unity with God or to a new life after death. In this field we must act; our actions alone determine who we are. There is no point in praying for divine guidance or help. As Gotama told Vasettha, it is as if someone who wants to cross the Achiravati river would turn to the opposite bank: “Come here, the other bank, come here!” No matter how much “call, nor pray, nor hope ", This will not help at all.



Копир ©   (2016-09-07 13:43) [438]

And finally (should the branch ever end!), As the first
and honest moritologist, I just have to mention the phenomenon,
thinking about which, like morbus letalis (a deadly disease),
one way or another at least once, but it concerned everyone.
Especially men.
Especially intelligent professions.

About suicide.

A particularly strict taboo has traditionally been placed on this subject,
about him, as well as about the deceased, it is not customary to talk.
Families in which this phenomenon occurred usually
keep about that "home secret".

The vast majority of religious teachings certainly condemn suicide.
In Christianity, for example, this is a threefold sin: murder, suppression of the will of the Creator
and the apotheosis of pride.
However, some Japanese schools and Indian allow.

A lot of works have been written about the causes and motives of suicide;
classic is considered the opus of the same Durkheim "Suicide".

I, (like Durkheim :) also tried to find the reason that people
sometimes try to commit suicide.

And decided that the true cause of some suicidal attempts
is not a misfortune that happened to a person, but, on the contrary, -
his happy and cloudless life was only confronted with "difficulties."

Such people consider - Since the former happy life will not be,
let there be no!

That is why the suicide rate is so high in prosperous Scandinavian countries and, as A.I.Solzhenitsyn noted, was so low in the monstrous camps of the Gulag
(1920-1950).

Therefore, suicidal moods are so popular.
representatives of creative professions who have never "sniffed" physical labor.

And among these professions - among humanities living in their own special world,
almost divorced from reality.

And among the humanities - among men, because after 30 years they do not need
"messing with children," as women do.
And from idleness and versatile intelligence ...
Plus impressionability ...
Plus atheism ...

Their aspirations are beautifully designed, so to speak, a priori.
They can captivate gullible listeners (especially listeners).

Non e vilta ne da vilta procede
S "alcun, per evitar piu crudel sorte,
Odia la propria vita e cerca morte ...

Meglio e morir all "anima gentile
Che supportar inevitabil danno
Che lo farria cambiar animo e stile.
- Quanti ha la morte gia tratti d "affanno!

Ma molt ch "hanno il chiamar morte a vile
Quanto talor sia dolce ancor non sanno ...

(Guiliano Medici).

Not a sign of cowardice when otherwise
In an effort to avoid the worst share,
Decides to die of her own free will ...

It’s better for a straight heart to die,
Until the flour breaks the soul
Imprinting her seal on it
“Oh, how much death brought salvation!”

And only the coward is not given to understand
How sweet the grave sometimes beckons ...

(Julian Medici).



Копир ©   (2016-09-07 15:03) [439]

The aesthetic as well as the ethical plans of suicide are ugly.
They say that the relatives of one girl (who hinted to them all the way),
showed her pictures taken in the police where a woman crashed in the fall
from high...

Ceased to hint.

There is one more aspect.
He is our, native, Russian.
Ancient, like Russia itself :)

The fact is that if you (God forbid) are pumped out after the “attempt”,
it’s by no means taken to Mother Teresa’s shelter.
This is "theirs" in the West to babysit.

We’ll be taken directly to the nearest regional “psychiatric hospital”.
Where are the stern male orderlies.
(We recall the film "Caucasian Captive").

And moreover.
These orderlies have instructions: do not let you out,
until your suicidal aspirations end.

And in your “pumped out” state they will not end soon.

And probably the most important thing:
Those who were killed successfully, because you won’t ask what is “There”?

But many of those killed unsuccessfully forever say goodbye
with their own aspirations.

Many, but not all.



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-09-07 17:02) [440]

If it is not difficult, you can a) change the subject b) not to mention in every post about the evil of the Bolsheviks. Got sick.



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Forum: "Other";
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Memory: 2.89 MB
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15-1473060464
andrd
2016-09-05 10:27
2018.06.24
Advise resources for writing programs for Android


15-1470377665
Inovet
2016-08-05 09:14
2018.06.24
Is it all so sad?


15-1473085582
Vladoshin
2016-09-05 17:26
2018.06.24
When to take a screenshot? blah blah probably for now


15-1468505113
Copier
2016-07-14 17:05
2018.06.24
Mundi termini appropinquante ...


15-1473307435
andrd
2016-09-08 07:03
2018.06.24
DelForExp for Embarcadero





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