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Mayan writing Find similar branches


KSergey ©   (2016-08-08 16:57) [0]

Today I briefly got acquainted with the stories of the "Mayan civilization."
This is the question that arose, but there was no answer.
It is clearly written that the direct descendants of those Mayans still live. And in the 16th century, when the Spaniards arrived, Mayans had a place to be.
How is it that their writing is required to be deciphered? moreover, significant successes were achieved only in the 20th century.

My guess: only a small part of the population owned writing / reading skills, and due to their high position, various democrats were the first to mow them.



Inovet ©   (2016-08-08 17:09) [1]

Why only Maya, it is possible to say about many letters, whose descendants are certainly alive.



pavelnk ©   (2016-08-08 17:54) [2]

> KSergey © (08.08.16 16: 57)
> How is it that their writing needs to be deciphered?
The direct descendants of those who built the pyramids in Giza live in Egypt. How is it that their writing is required to be deciphered?



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-08-08 18:54) [3]


> My guess:


"It seems to me a very simple thing -
They wanted to eat - and ate Cook. "



Pavia ©   (2016-08-08 19:26) [4]

And why do Pushkin's verses require decryption? Do not flatter yourself, they decoded them at school. But no one writes and says so.

Prophet

With spiritual thirst
Desert & # 1123; gloomy I dragged myself
And the six-winged seraph
At the crossroads of many & # 1123; appeared;
With light fingers, like a dream,
My z & # 1123; nits touched him;
Opened in & # 1123; schiya s & # 1123; faces,
Like a frightened eagle.
My ear was touched
And they filled the noise and ringing:
And I heeded the trembling of heaven,
And the mountain angel fly
And bastard of the sea underwater,
And more vines vetch.
And he kissed my mouth,
And ripped out my tongue,
And idle and crafty,
And the sting of the wise serpent & # 1123; and
My mouth is frozen
He put his right hand in bloody.
And he's a lot of & # 1123; chest razs меч sword,
And a quivering heart took out,
And coal, burning fire
Hole pushed into the chest.
Like a corpse in the desert & # 1123; I lay
And God's voice to many & # 1123; called out:
“Arise, prophet, and see, and heed
Fulfill My will
And going around the sea and land,
Verb burn the hearts of men! "



Юрий Зотов ©   (2016-08-08 20:46) [5]

And Italian somehow is not very similar to Latin.



ухты ©   (2016-08-08 21:09) [6]

Etruscan inscriptions, fest disk, etc. also somehow it’s not very read, although it would seem - Greece, Crete ... and then Mesamerica, Peru, Bolivia - the hell is on the fuss))



Kerk ©   (2016-08-08 21:57) [7]


> Pavia © (08.08.16 19: 26) [4]

What exactly is not clear to you in this poem?

I would understand if you referred to the Novgorod birch bark letters, but then ...



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-08-08 22:01) [8]


> Novgorod birch bark letters

also more or less read, watched recently.



NoUser ©   (2016-08-08 22:36) [9]

> How is it that their writing needs to be deciphered?

http://rubible.com/article/428 :

>
> Until the middle of the first millennium AD the Old Testament
> texts were written without vowels or diacritics.

>
> In view of the fact that originally Jewish writings
> consisted entirely of consonants, some words are difficult
> identify with full confidence

> In conclusion, it should be noted that the formation of books
> Scripture was happening influenced by God controlled
> stories, as well as through God's inspiration.

With the Koran, the same problem, but you're talking about some Mayans))



Dimka Maslov ©   (2016-08-08 22:58) [10]

What maya is there! Being in Helsingfors, I watched the news on the BBC. I didn’t understand a word.



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 07:40) [11]

Interestingly, a lot of people unsubscribed in the thread, and there was no answer or suggestion to the question that was voiced. Amazing

> pavelnk © (08.08.16 17: 54) [2]
> In Egypt live the direct descendants of those who built the pyramids in
> Giza. How is it that their writing is required to be deciphered?


> Inovet © (08.08.16 17: 09) [1]
> Why only Maya, it is possible to say about many written works, the descendants of which are certainly alive.

AND? what do you want to say on the voiced issue? ideas from what so?



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 07:42) [12]

> NoUser © (08.08.16 22: 36) [9]
QuotedXNUMX>> In view of the fact that the original Jewish writings
quotedXNUMX>> consisted entirely of consonants, some words are difficult to determine with complete certainty

Interesting facts, they already relate to the topic.
The truth is not clear to me: I wonder if the authors managed to read them? or was it not about reading later?



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-08-09 07:47) [13]


> to the voiced question-no answer, no assumptions. Amazing

it is surprising that even the writing on the forum seems to be necessary for some, like Maya's writing, to decipher ...



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 07:56) [14]

Enough to write clearly.
If you don’t understand, it’s only your fault, count it?



iop ©   (2016-08-09 08:26) [15]

What exactly is not clear to you in this poem?

three-masted spanish ship
pester to holland ready
there are hundreds of bastards on it,
two monkeys, barrels of gold
yes cargo rich chocolat



Ринсвинд ©   (2016-08-09 09:13) [16]

Deleted by moderator



iop ©   (2016-08-09 09:20) [17]

This is elementary: at first, the Mayans began to learn a little of the languages ​​of Europeans

and the Europeans did not gradually learn Mayan, because Spanish is beautiful.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 09:27) [18]

everything is much more elementary there.

there is Maya and there are their descendants. it is a fact.
there is still someone's writing found at the place where the Mayans lived. also a fact.

and this is not necessarily Mayan script.
like Baalbek is not necessarily the work of Roman legionnaires.

and if we recall that in addition to Maya, there are other Indians in North America who did not have a written language, but then they spoke to them and can now speak their language, then everything becomes clear.



Ринсвинд ©   (2016-08-09 09:35) [19]


> and the Europeans gradually did not study Mayan, because
> that spanish is beautiful.

There are a lot of reasons. Here is the first thing that comes to mind:
1. A European, if he needs to simplify trade with the local population, will hire an interpreter. Who will the local fisherman hire?
2. The new government and the law wrote their documents in their own language.
3. All Spaniards (or many) could write in Spanish. Did all Maya write in their language?
4. See an example of the Mayan script. Do you really think that it is easier and more convenient than Spanish?



iop ©   (2016-08-09 09:38) [20]

There are a lot of reasons. Here is the first thing that comes to mind:

while for some reason it does not occur to the Europeans that they learned the languages ​​of other Indians.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 09:39) [21]

A European, if he needs to simplify trade with the local population, will hire an interpreter.

what is a translator?
15th century red-skinned yale graduate?
ok google.



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 09:42) [22]

> Rincewind © (09.08.16 09: 13) [16]
> What is the difference

Did I write something about the difference?

Those. your version is that their language itself initially began to be forgotten, and through this writing. Also an option, yes. Although it seems that one of the branches of the language is still spoken by the living (if you believe the wiki), but maybe it really is catastrophically different.



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 09:44) [23]

> iop © (09.08.16 09: 27) [18]
> then everything becomes clear.

Sorry, but I don’t.
Could you simply state your version as a version, and not as descriptions without output?



iop ©   (2016-08-09 09:47) [24]

I kind of wrote.

there are Mayans found by the Spaniards.
there are their modern descendants.
there are written monuments found in the territory where the Spaniards found Maya.

and this is not necessarily Mayan script.
it can easily be someone else's writing, which the Mayans did not read, did not write and did not use.



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 09:48) [25]

> iop © (09.08.16 09: 20) [17]
> and the Europeans little by little did not learn Mayan, because Spanish is beautiful.

And the Europeans simply slaughtered Nafik Indians who did not agree to live under their command. Previously, of course, having studied the language, yes.
And those tribes that went "to the side" of the Europeans - obviously accepted their rules of the game and did not show off their tongue anymore, because they saw what happens to those who show off, and they very constantly and clearly demonstrated this very clearly, especially directly here.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 09:48) [26]

and this is not necessarily the writing of contemporaries of those same "Spanish" Mayans.



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 09:50) [27]

> iop © (09.08.16 09: 47) [24]
> and this is not necessarily Mayan writing.
> it can easily be someone else's writing, which the Mayans did not read, did not write and did not use.

The version is interesting.
It goes against what the Mayanists write, although in essence, in essence, the differences are only terminological: to name those who left inscriptions, "Maya" or not to name.
So the version is good. Thanks.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 09:51) [28]

And the Europeans simply slaughtered Nafik Indians who did not agree to live under their command. Previously, of course, having studied the language, yes.

You do not know the topic well.
there is a big difference in the attitude of different Europeans towards the Indians.
Spaniards, for example, married Indian women, recognized their offspring with all inheritance matters, etc.

Anglo-Saxons did not do this as a rule.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 09:53) [29]

It goes against what the Mayans write,

Have you heard anything about the archaeological dogma of the new world?

in a new world, it is forbidden to find the fossil remains of man ancient Cro-Magnon. they should not be there.



Ринсвинд ©   (2016-08-09 09:57) [30]


> at the same time it doesn’t come to my mind that the Europeans taught
> languages ​​of other Indians.

Trappers like Nathaniel Bampo may have been taught a little. And city officials are unlikely. I repeat once again: open Google examples of Maya writing. Take a good look at the hieroglyphs. Most likely, only the most dedicated knew them from the locals (and this, I think, was a good way to cut off vertical elevators for the poor). And I think it was quite possible for the local population to learn Spanish from the messengers, for example.


> what is a translator?
> 15th century red-skinned yale graduate?

Local young guy / girl who learned a foreign language to communicate and work as translators. Have you read Cooper at all?



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 09:58) [31]

> iop © (09.08.16 09: 51) [28]
> Spaniards, for example, married Indian women, recognized their offspring with all inheritance matters, etc.

About the Spaniards
http://www.indiansworld.org/zavoevanie-strany-mayya-yukatana.html

I don’t know anything about the authority of this link, but it’s fun to read.



Ринсвинд ©   (2016-08-09 10:01) [32]


> iop © (09.08.16 09: 53) [29]
> It goes against what the Mayans write,
>
> have you heard anything about the archaeological dogma of the new
> light?
>
> in a new world it is forbidden to find the fossil remains of man
> ancient Cro-Magnon. they should not be there.

Well, this is an obvious conspiracy theory from the series "ancient people knew how to fly and drank to the brudershaft with aliens." And I'm crucifying ...



iop ©   (2016-08-09 10:02) [33]

I repeat once again: open Google examples of Maya writing.

dig Baalbek in google and look at the trilithons and the southern stone.
Roman legionnaires allegedly did this in the backyards of Imeria during service breaks.

Mayan characters from the same opera.
they are the same Mayan ones as the temple of Jupiter in the territory of modern Lebanon - Roman.



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 10:03) [34]

> Rincewind © (09.08.16 09: 57) [30]
> And I think to learn Spanish, it was quite possible for the local population from the messengers, for example.

I agree, and to interpret the trade language as such and do not need to know something. So, a couple dozen separate words, including numerals.
Remember your conversation in the shops of foreign countries (we are talking about countries whose population you don’t know the language of, while the population also does not know English (as a language). Thailand, China, the Philippines are indicative, for example.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 10:05) [35]

so, with the spoken language, everyone agrees that everything is clear.

it remains to be seen on the basis of what the Mayan characters are attributed to Maya.
I know one argument. hieroglyphs were where Maya was.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 10:08) [36]

according to the same reliable historical data, these Mayans were big entertainers.
they had a city and there was a pyramid in it.
great.
once they sensed something was amiss, and decided to get away from there.
but previously they covered the pyramid at the very top.
not clay and sand, but clay.
or mudflow.



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-08-09 10:12) [37]


> Have you read Cooper at all?

funny, Cooper is an authoritative historian ... then who is Vern?



Ринсвинд ©   (2016-08-09 10:50) [38]


> iop © (09.08.16 10: 05) [35]
> I know one argument. hieroglyphs were where Maya was.

The second argument is radiocarbon analysis.



Dimka Maslov ©   (2016-08-09 11:06) [39]


> the language of the population you do not know, while the population
> English (as a language) also does not know. Thailand, China, Philippines
> indicative, for example


It is already good that the population of these regions is trained in counting in a decimal positional number system. And that would be a complete kayuk. In the best case, only natural exchange would be possible.



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-08-09 11:15) [40]


> In the best case, only natural exchange would be possible.

That's it. That would be better.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 11:45) [41]

for interpretation during trade

more wonderful and wonderful.

the Spaniards came, they began to trade.
language could be known at the level of "kamrat tu bir plis"
no one needed to read karakuli,
then the Mayans were tidied up
and in the 19-20 centuries they suddenly caught on and began to search for the rich inner world of the Mayans deciphering hieroglyphs.



Kerk ©   (2016-08-09 11:53) [42]

New dispute about the alternative history, hooray! There will be at least something to read :))



iop ©   (2016-08-09 12:20) [43]

the Incas who did not know the wheels built the complex in alyantaytabo literally on the eve of the Spaniards.
and either unfinished, or destroyed so that those did not get it.

and that was literally yesterday, at the beginning of the 15th century.
and under the Spaniards no one had done anything like that. all sharply forgotten everything.

and although everything could be much simpler, the Incas might not have anything to do with megaliths, but they might one day come to this area, see something strange, and stay there, but since there shouldn’t be anyone sensible, and megaliths should be hung on Cro-Magnon people already completely through the chur, the Incas built the same.
no wheel, no nifig.

Today, few dovetail in wooden planks can make a good hacksaw with a miter box, but the Naked Incas have polygonal masonry conjugated in three planes as a nafik nafik. there were a lot of them, and they simply had nothing to do, so they put it.

and Maya from nefik do tall buildings were filled up before leaving with clay volume in orders exceeding the volume of the building itself.
this of course could be the result of large-scale tsunamis and the pyramids brought mudflow masses, but it would be much nicer to think of the mysterious Mayans, who just had nothing to do but dig their structures into clay ...



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 12:39) [44]

> Kilkennycat © (09.08.16 11: 15) [40]
QuotedXNUMX>> In the best case, only natural exchange would be possible.
> That's it. That would be better.

For whom? and what?



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 12:42) [45]

> iop © (09.08.16 11: 45) [41]
> for trade interpretation
> all the more wonderful and wonderful.
> the Spaniards came, they began to trade.

This is a cool approach.
Start with a false thesis, develop it - and then build on the basis of all this “arguments”. It’s not even important to break the opponent or not.
The style itself is beautiful.

In fact, did the Spaniards (conditionally, i.e. Europeans) come to trade? I don’t remember something from the story.
Yes, this was mentioned in the thread, but personally, as I understood it, in the context of the fact that when they had already ordered it, they began to trade with consonants. Or they didn’t start, the details, although I don’t remember something about trade, again, from history at all.



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 12:48) [46]

> iop © (09.08.16 12: 20) [43]
> Incas who did not know the wheels built a complex in alyantaytabo
> literally on the eve of the Spaniards.
> and either unfinished, or destroyed so that those did not get it.

There is a suggestion: you will tell how it really was, and we will listen to you with interest.
And under # @ ki - shine at school, here they are of no interest to anyone.
This is a question in my next thread.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 12:56) [47]

This is a cool approach.

Yes, not cooler than yours.

claim that the Spaniards did not know the Mayan language,
that they had a ready-made Native American translator into Spanish
then say that you didn’t need to know the language either, since there they stupidly changed beads to Manhattan.

and then claim that the Maya had the same writing,
Yes, such that modern Mayans do not stick about what is written there.
although maya



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-08-09 12:57) [48]


> KSergey © (09.08.16 12: 39) [44]

for all. money spoils everything.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 12:59) [49]

There is a suggestion: you will tell how it really was, and we will listen to you with interest.

there is a proposal to admit that "as it really wasn’t exactly there" is also an interesting question.

and you can and should talk about this without even knowing how it actually HAS BEEN.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 13:01) [50]

In fact, did the Spaniards (conditionally, i.e. Europeans) come to trade? I don’t remember something from the story.

This claim is not for me.
say this to those who claim that the Spaniards did not speak Indian languages ​​because you can trade on your fingers.



Inovet ©   (2016-08-09 13:08) [51]

> [11] KSergey © (09.08.16 07: 40)
>> Inovet © (08.08.16 17: 09) [1]
QuotedXNUMX>> Why only Maya, it can be said about many written languages,
> whose descendants are certainly alive.
>
> And? what do you want to say on the voiced issue? ideas from what so?

Assimilation is called.



ухты ©   (2016-08-09 13:17) [52]


> Incas who did not know the wheels built a complex in alyantaytabo
> literally on the eve of the Spaniards.
well, they probably knew the wheel, but even knowing the wheel to build it ...)



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 13:32) [53]

> iop © (09.08.16 13: 01) [50]
> Are the Spaniards really (conditionally, i.e. Europeans) arrived
> trade? I don’t remember something from the story.
>
> this claim is not for me.

It is not true.
Trade really was not mentioned by you. however, she was mentioned in passing and without explicit reference to the order of events. In any case, I saw it like that.
But it is you who put the trade first, on the basis of which you build a chain of reasoning showing that such a sequence is false. But you did offer it!

I don’t see the point of reasoning “as it was”.
So we have to sort out too many options "what was not."



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 13:35) [54]

By the way, here it’s quite obvious (or partly between the lines) that it reads “how it happened”
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D1%8B_%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%8F

When the conquest began, Catholic missionaries developed the Latin alphabet for the Yucatec language and created peculiar boarding schools at the monasteries to educate the new generation of Native American aristocracy in the spirit of new values ​​and European culture

Plus the texts were burned all nafik, plus they were cut out, plus the Inquisition (it does not matter in what order).
An instructive story, however.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 13:44) [55]

on the basis of which build a chain of reasoning showing that such a sequence is false

I set the trade first to show the flawed argumentation.

that is, in the 15th century the Spaniards didn’t give a damn about the written language,
and at 19-20 suddenly for some reason they call it Mayan and begin to decipher it.

at the same time, for some reason, no one is soaring over the decoding of the written language of Sioux, Apache, Comanche, Huron ....
maybe because she isn’t? or maybe because there is nothing to decrypt?

and maybe the Spaniards did not care about "Mayan hieroglyphs" because the Maya themselves of the 15th century did not cut into their meaning because they had no idea whose it was and what it was?



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 14:03) [56]

> iop © (09.08.16 13: 44) [55]
> I put the trade first to show the flawed argumentation.

The damage to your argument, I understand correctly?

> iop © (09.08.16 13: 44) [55]
> that is, in the 15th century, the Spaniards didn’t give a damn about the written language,
> and at 19-20 suddenly for some reason it is called Mayan and begin to decipher.

I do not see anything surprising in this. Could you clarify what surprises you in this?
The world, in fact, has changed dramatically. Indians have not been slaughtered by entire tribes for a long time, and they are no longer selling blacks. In any case, without their consent. It is so?
So why can scientific interests not change direction?



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 14:06) [57]

> iop © (09.08.16 13: 44) [55]
> and maybe the Spaniards did not care for "Mayan hieroglyphs" because
> Maya themselves of the 15th century did not cut into their meaning because they had no idea whose it was and what it was?

It may be so, but it vryatli corresponds to historical evidence.
In any case, the Inquisition burned books for a reason and not immediately. And only when it became clear that the Indians in Christianity began to actively mix their rituals.
It is difficult to say whether they did it on the basis of the records they had or whether these records simply lay like talismans with an ancient "ornament", but they did have them.



NoUser ©   (2016-08-09 14:15) [58]

[12]
> did the authors read them?


http://www.sokr.ru/

http://cyclowiki.org/wiki/%D0%A6%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%A1%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8:%D0%90%D0%B1%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D1%8B

?

> or the essence of the record was not to read later?

the essence of the record, like any "information message" is to convey information prepared to the addressee.

Take for example a musical notation, if you’ve never been a musician, or for chemistry, if not a chemist, and how?

PS

> The burning of Buddhist sutras was practiced in a Zen school, but
> this was not a manifestation of fanaticism, but was the desire of teachers
> "Call in the student a breakthrough to" enlightenment "". ...



iop ©   (2016-08-09 14:18) [59]

I do not see anything surprising in this. Could you clarify what surprises you in this?

and the fact that very close to Maya above and below in both America lived exactly the same tribes. the same primitive.

but some went along Honduras, saw the pyramids and began to live there.
others got forests and steppes.

and now no one deciphers the Apache doomsday calendars because they lived where there was none of this, but everyone puzzles over the Mayan scripts because they were lucky to live in the place where someone lived before them in the antediluvian era and disappeared leaving the pyramids and calendars.



Сергей Суровцев ©   (2016-08-09 14:20) [60]

> iop © (09.08.16 13: 44)

It would be nice to recall why the locals did not kill the Cortes gang at their first appearance and further gangster behavior ...



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 14:29) [61]

> iop © (09.08.16 14: 18) [59]
> and the fact that very close to Maya above and below in both America
> lived exactly the same tribes.

But how does this explain the fact that they were not studied at 15, and suddenly began to decipher in the 20th century?



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 14:30) [62]

> Sergey Surovtsev © (09.08.16 14: 20) [60]
> It would be nice to recall why the locals did not interrupt
> a gang of Cortes at their first appearance and further gangster behavior ...

Remind please.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 14:40) [63]

But how does this explain the fact that they were not studied at 15, and suddenly began to decipher in the 20th century?


began to decrypt because it became interesting.

I say that these are not Mayan hieroglyphs at all.
hence there are clouds of fog from the category of descendants, they know the language, but no one knows how to read. hence the alphabet de Landa, which is true only, or falsification. which did not prevent Knorozov from using it to decipher the Mayan script.

plus neighbors around.
which are the most common nomad collectors without pyramids, calendars or writing.



Сергей Суровцев ©   (2016-08-09 14:42) [64]

> KSergey © (09.08.16 14: 30) [62]
> Remind me please.

Because they were mistaken for the gods. And not just anyhow, but the BACK gods who clearly fell under the description from legends and all sorts of legends.

> KSergey © (09.08.16 14: 06) [57]
> In any case, the Inquisition burned books for a reason and not immediately. And only when it became clear that the Indians in Christianity began to actively mix their rituals.

I hope you personally observed these processes so as not to doubt the tolerance of the holy inquisition.



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 15:03) [65]

> Sergey Surovtsev © (09.08.16 14: 42) [64]
> I hope you personally watched these processes so that
> do not doubt the tolerance of the holy Inquisition.

Another naughty cocky schoolboy?
Tell your version, I will listen to it with interest and gratitude.
A link for those who have not read the history textbook at school is also a great option.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 15:13) [66]

so tell him someone.

how the holy inquisition burned Indian books newspapers and magazines with pictures that contained heresies about Jesus of our Christ.

and it looks like he really smoked in the backyard.

And only when it became clear that the Indians in Christianity began to actively mix their rituals.


So after all, this could only happen in post-Columbian America.
or among the Indians they burned and pre-Columbian publications,
in which the Indians managed to mix their interpretations of Christianity?

why am i asking?
we, on the other hand, seem to suffer from the fact that there are no those primary pre-Columbian sources of Native American writing.

and those that are post-Columbian - they cannot help decipher the Mayan hieroglyphs simply because the Native American contemporaries did not rummage through them.



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 15:23) [67]

> iop © (09.08.16 15: 13) [66]
> why am I asking?
> we Sedna, as it were, suffer from the fact that there are no those primary pre-Columbian sources of Native American writing.

This statement of yours contradicts the facts: there are quite a few examples of writing, carved in stone, and also made in the form of modeling. This, incidentally, is about determining the true age of civilization, which left these inscriptions.
So with pre-Columbian sources, in any case the so-called "Mayan scripts" - complete order.

> and those that are post-Columbian-they can not help decrypt
> Mayan hieroglyphs simply because Native American contemporaries of Cortes did not rummage through them.

And what is this statement based on? this is not entirely obvious to me. but maybe I missed something.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 15:29) [68]

And what is this statement based on? this is not entirely obvious to me. but maybe I missed something.

based on your original question.
Mayan descendants are, but the letters must be decrypted, because they do not rummage.
probably they have a written language.
but with her everything is the same.
we do not have a post-Columbian Mayan textbook on deciphering the "Mayan" hieroglyphs.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 15:31) [69]

but maybe I missed something.

read a little. rarely thought.
all business something on the new secret of the century "what I missed that"



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 15:40) [70]

> iop © (09.08.16 15: 31) [69]
> read a little. rarely thought.
> all business then on a new secret of the century "what I missed that"

Boy, you would not be rude.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 15:41) [71]

and then what?

will you push mom?



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 15:42) [72]

> iop © (09.08.16 15: 29) [68]
> And on what is this statement based? this is not quite for me
> obviously. but maybe I missed something.
>
> based on your original question.

Your statement is based on my question ?!
Nah yes. Amazing people.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 15:43) [73]

1. Today I briefly got acquainted with the stories of the "Mayan civilization."

2. but maybe I missed something.

read a little. rarely thought.

this is not rudeness. this is a bitter truth.
kid.



iop ©   (2016-08-09 15:44) [74]

Your statement is based on my question ?!

refute duck, cho.



ухты ©   (2016-08-09 16:10) [75]


> many examples of writing carved in stone, as well as
> made in the form of sculpting.
the stones are not dated in principle, and not everything is clear with clay



Тракторист ©   (2016-08-09 16:15) [76]

pavelnk © (08.08.16 17: 54) [2]
The direct descendants of those who built the pyramids in Giza live in Egypt.

No.
Those Egyptians were long ago supplanted by the Arabs.
So they live there now.

By the way, Etruscan inscriptions were read not so long ago.



Сергей Суровцев ©   (2016-08-09 16:32) [77]

> Tractor driver © (09.08.16 16: 15) [76]
> Those Egyptians have long been ousted by the Arabs.

It seems like there is one tribe. Of those ancient. They live apart, do not mix with anyone, stay away from everyone. The secrets of the pyramids and writing probably keep quiet.

> KSergey © (09.08.16 15: 23) [67]
> This your statement contradicts the facts: there are quite a few examples of writing carved in stone,

Have you ever wondered what on the stone they wrote all this? Another stone? They are trying to make them pre-Columbian savages full. In loincloths from eaten bananas. There is always a lot of talk about their gold figurines and jewelry. But there isn’t something about metallurgy ...



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-08-09 17:13) [78]


> But there isn’t something about metallurgy ...

but there was no metallurgy. immediately synthesized what is needed. using the box with the button left by the aliens.



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 17:13) [79]

> Sergey Surovtsev © (09.08.16 16: 32) [77]
> And you did not think

Once again: is it possible to familiarize yourself with your version?



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 17:16) [80]

> iop © (09.08.16 15: 41) [71]
> and then what?
> will you get tired of mom?

I was waiting for this question.
Age is confirmed.
It’s not good to beat the little ones.



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-08-09 17:17) [81]


> is it possible to familiarize yourself with your version?

with mine you can:

Once upon a time, a divine creature farted.
So this world appeared with a bunch of everything strange, and incomprehensible, and type, with meaning.
But in fact, this is just some flatulence.
Otherwise, where does the expansion of the universe and all sorts of spirals come from?



KSergey ©   (2016-08-09 17:34) [82]

> Wow © (09.08.16 16: 10) [75]
quotedXNUMX>> many examples of writing carved in stone, as well as
quotedXNUMX>> made in the form of sculpting.
> stones are not dated in principle, and with clay not everything is clear

Well i.e. you are hinting that the age of the stones (or rather, the inscriptions on them) was determined incorrectly, everything was much earlier in reality.
I understand you correctly?



iop ©   (2016-08-09 17:41) [83]

it’s good that at least I understood.
but true or false is already a matter of gain.



ухты ©   (2016-08-09 18:02) [84]


> Well i.e. you are hinting that the age of the stones (or rather -
> inscriptions on them) is determined incorrectly, everything was strong
> earlier actually.
> I understand you correctly?
Yes, what are the hints here, this is reality, the stone does not date and that's it
you can say that Maya scribbled it, but you can say that yesterday, it’s not conclusively wrong or wrong, therefore your arguments about stones are not arguments



ухты ©   (2016-08-09 18:04) [85]

and with carbon analysis it’s not so simple, at such “distances” its error is so high that there I’m going there, there’s more



iop ©   (2016-08-09 18:10) [86]

among historians, dating issues are often resolved on a contractual basis.
and this is perceived by them as something normal.

Vasya found a cultural artifact that lies in a certain geological layer, which is so many years old. but this does not suit Petya, since then questions arise about his conclusions on other topics. then they call Kolya and together establish the dating of the artifact so that there is nothing for anyone.

schematically if.



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-08-09 18:11) [87]


> the stone does not date and that's it

and if it is in the kidneys?



MsGuns ©   (2016-08-09 18:25) [88]

If this dispute were real, then I would offer boxing gloves to some.
And on the topic ..
In our hostel once lived one Georgian. He was a good guy, but when he got drunk, he began to speak Khmer. Maybe this, of course, was not Khmer, I do not know, not a philologist, but no one could understand him at all. Not a word :)



ухты ©   (2016-08-09 18:46) [89]


> and if it is in the kidneys?
these are possible, but only while they are in them))



Сергей Суровцев ©   (2016-08-09 22:31) [90]

> iop © (09.08.16 18: 10) [86]
> historians dating issues are often resolved on a contractual basis.
> and this is perceived by them as something normal.

Little of. When dating, they use only their criteria. And they do not attract specialists from other areas of knowledge. Material science, engineering of all directions do not exist for them. If, for example, they find an aluminum part that remotely, with a wild stretch resembling a hatchet, is 1000% man-made (regular shapes, 2 holes of different diameters) and at the same time has an oxidation layer of about a millimeter, then they will call it an hatchet. And date a couple of thousand years. Or, as an option, they will declare fake. Although both conclusions are absolutely wrong, and based on the FACTS. But, if the facts contradict the theory, the worse for the facts.



Сергей Суровцев ©   (2016-08-09 22:41) [91]

> KSergey © (09.08.16 17: 13) [79]
> Once again: is it possible to familiarize yourself with your version?

I don’t have enough information to build any full version. But it is enough to understand that the existing version is deeply erroneous.
For example:
On the roof of a 9-storey building is a car, and next to it is a girl. It is proposed to take for granted that since she is standing there, it was she who dragged this car there. Nobody is going to explain how she did this. We must accept this and all. Little of. We must also accept that she herself designed and built this car.



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-08-09 22:52) [92]

Sergey Surovtsev © (09.08.16 22: 31) [90]

Fomenko with Nosovsky rule!



Сергей Суровцев ©   (2016-08-09 22:59) [93]

> Igor Shevchenko © (09.08.16 22: 52) [92]
> Fomenko with Nosovsky rule!

Common sense and fair dealing prevail. And they do not steer peremptory, unproven, juggling and ignoring the facts.



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-08-10 00:03) [94]


> On the roof of a 9-story building there is a car, and next to it is a girl ...

... In an influx of happiness half-open mouth
(c) Sasha Black



Kerk ©   (2016-08-10 00:19) [95]


> Kilkennycat © (10.08.16 00: 03) [94]

Definitely not Sasha Gray? :)



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-08-10 01:57) [96]


> Kerk © (10.08.16 00: 19) [95]

for sure. remember by heart entot verse - "Setting"



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-08-10 10:17) [97]

Kilkennycat © (10.08.16 01: 57) [96]

So do I.



KSergey ©   (2016-08-10 14:55) [98]

> Sergey Surovtsev © (09.08.16 22: 41) [91]
> I do not have enough information to build any full version.

Well, but you can make any version that does not contradict the facts you know. After all, you have no obligation to make it by all means complete and explain everything. It’s just not contradicting the facts you know.



Копир ©   (2016-08-10 21:41) [99]

> KSergey © (08.08.16/16/57 XNUMX:XNUMX):
> How is it that their writing needs to be deciphered?
moreover, significant successes were achieved only in the 20th century.

Once upon a time there was such a scientist, Jean Champollion.
At 16 years old (1806) he knew 12 languages.

I have never been to Egypt.

Since 1820, he successfully deciphered no, not inscriptions (there, after all, pictures!)
found inside and on the Egyptian Pyramids (s).

It would seem, but why?
Arabs who proudly call themselves "Egyptians" live today.
Only culturally, are they the same Egyptians as modern
Italians - Romans :)

And these Egyptian pictures for Champion were the same mystery,
like a true pronunciation of latin phrases.

And the way it is spelled is pronounced :)

And no one, no one in the whole world knows how it really sounded
phrase: Ab equis ad asinos?

Well, what is not Ab Equis Ad Asinos - that's for sure!

Otherwise, coma togger right is new over me :)



iop ©   (2016-08-10 22:41) [100]

Once upon a time there was such a scientist, Isaac Nevton.
At 16, he probably did not know 12 languages.
Once an apple fell to him and he deduced the law of gravity.
But before that, he froze it on the table for about 20 years.
And no one in the whole world knows, the concept of power in nevton has physical meaning, or it’s just a convenient mathematical model.

Because there are no forces in metric dynamics, and at the same time, one can go from classical to the quantum model without paradoxes.



Копир ©   (2016-08-10 23:28) [101]

Deleted by moderator



iop ©   (2016-08-10 23:36) [102]

no one will ever find a hicks bison.
a breakthrough will be through the geometrization of physics.
and there will be no strength.
all interactions will be a consequence of geometry.



Kilkennycat ©   (2016-08-10 23:41) [103]

I have a bunch of bosons lying on my table, but they are all mine, not the hicks.



Копир ©   (2016-08-10 23:49) [104]

> iop © (10.08.16 23: 36) [102]

no one will ever find a hicks bison.
a breakthrough will be through the geometrization of physics.
and there will be no strength.
all interactions will be a consequence of geometry.

To say that I bow to this your opinion,
means - keep silent.
I (if you’re not joking, of course) are very pleased,
what else are Physicists who understand that they don’t
mass gives birth to a metric.
And the metric, the mass.

Iop, you do not find my statements a complaint.
Or something else?

Medieval scholastics said that truth is born in dispute.

Well, stay a little?
Scholastics :)



iop ©   (2016-08-10 23:57) [105]

But not a single scientist has ever guessed to glorify once and for all
Newton because his definition of force surpasses any
empirical physics!


and what is there for such a superior definition of power in nevton?

he saw (objectively recorded) accelerations and said that
there must be some garbage that is the cause of these observed accelerations.
and called it "power"

and that’s all (where to sing hosanna - xs).

other peppers who calculated the orbital speeds of stars in the galaxy in Newton and received a bummer, said that
there must be black-primordial matter, which is the reason that the velocities on the periphery converge to a constant instead of zero in non-tune.

on the other hand, the empirical law of tally fisher,
associating the luminosity of the holactek with the fourth degree speeds stars
operates only with visible matter normal person
and does not depend on the black matter of the dark man.

but as if the stars are spinning there like that so fast - dark matter is to blame

why am I saying all this?
there is very little time left until the day when all this heresy of black materials and black energies, together with the hicks buffalo, will be burned at the stake to the hell.



Копир ©   (2016-08-11 00:10) [106]

> iop © (10.08.16 23: 36) [102]:

However, of course, there are puzzles.
Just like Champollion.
Like Maya.

And if (as the researchers say) this people
professed not the earthly, but the Venusian calendar,
why did Geisenberg put forward his principle?

Classical physics knows nothing like this.

Those. neither in the days of the Greeks, nor, especially in Newton, had
the temptation to explain the paradox of the visible and recognized already somehow
empirically.

Say Hermes insulted Apollo by stealing cows from him?

Apollo did not have the hard choice that affords him
ironic Geisenberg: look for either cows or their absence.

What will the classical antique god do?

Nobody knows because found cows will violate innocence
Hermes.
And those not found will force Apollo to search.
Cows.

The principle of uncertainties.
In the spirit of Mount Olympus.

By God :)



Копир ©   (2016-08-11 00:23) [107]

> iop © (10.08.16 23: 36) [102]:

I guess I put it not quite clear, because
that did not mention the constant, i.e. root of contradiction
between the search for Apollo and the absence of cows (with malicious
Hermes grin).

(Found) multiply by (Didn't find) = const.

Of course, you know that this constant is Planck Constant.

Because the impulse (desire) multiplied by the coordinate (place)
gives an act (action).

Do I need to explain to you what "action" in sq. mechanics?
And about post.Plank.



Германн ©   (2016-08-11 01:22) [108]


> Kilkennycat © (10.08.16 01: 57) [96]
>
>
>> Kerk © (10.08.16 00: 19) [95]
>
> for sure. remember by heart entot verse - "Setting"

Specially chtol memorized? I’ve read it at least many times, but I couldn’t remember it.
True, I am not a fan of poetry. (



KSergey ©   (2016-08-11 07:53) [109]

On the topic, as usual, there is nothing to say, but we can always load the dolphimaster. No!



iop ©   (2016-08-11 08:37) [110]

enough has been said on the topic, but as usual we would only have to plunge the forum, which we will always be able to

a paradox has been declared, which is that Maya is written, Maya itself, and no one really fumbles in the letters.

is this a paradox?

Well, if you do not assume that this is Mayan writing, then there is no longer any paradox.

What after that will an honest researcher and supporter of Tovo do that this writing is related to Maya?

right. he will give evidence that this is so.

and what will the forum sinker do?
he will say that the version is interesting, but goes against the dogmas of historians about the Maya. all!



KSergey ©   (2016-08-11 09:07) [111]

The opinion of adolescents does not interest anyone.



Игорь Шевченко ©   (2016-08-11 10:58) [112]

We will not ship



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